How young’s too young?

[Jpace]

That is a good question for that trainer as to why they wait. When most pointing dog trainers want to do the gun, collar, and some obedience. My last two have started that process at 4 months it takes about a month. Then let the dog hunt wild birds for a year before the breaking process begins. Pointing breeds and flushing breeds are different in that aspect I guess.

 

[westksbowhunter]

That is a good question for that trainer as to why they wait. When most pointing dog trainers want to do the gun, collar, and some obedience. My last two have started that process at 4 months it takes about a month. Then let the dog hunt wild birds for a year before the breaking process begins. Pointing breeds and flushing breeds are different in that aspect I guess.

Well that was a rhetorical question. I know exactly why they wait.

 

[Skadergen]

The Smith Method of Bird Dog Training with Rick Smith

The basic tenets and takeaways from the Huntsmith training system, developed by world-renowned bird dog trainers Rick and Ronnie Smith.

projectupland.com

Transitioning a Dog from Training and Testing to Hunting Wild Birds

This guide will help you troubleshoot and transition onto wild birds with your pointing dog this hunting season

projectupland.com

Below is a quote from your article, which is from the Smith’ which when I follow their process thoroughly, I feel confident I have the capacity to develop a decent, (perhaps not perfect) hunter.

Is the Smith training method good for beginners?​

Speaking from personal experience as a beginner only a few years into the project of training my first bird dog, and from my assistance and/or witness of this method being employed with over a hundred handlers and dogs, I’d present the Smith system as one of the most beginner-friendly methods available. It’s a stair-step method, designed to offer safe harbor to a handler and dog by simply stepping back to previously-mastered steps in the process whenever new tasks are met with resistance. This gives the dog and handler a sufficient opportunity to both reinforce and shore up the handler’s leadership as well as digest the outlines of any new task. The Smith method is also one of the most fully-developed systems for beginners since there is a comprehensive set of resources available for introducing the key concepts and engaging in active, hands-on learning.

Beginners can start with the Huntsmith DVDs; the lessons introduced there can be extended considerably through Rick’s and Ronnie’s foundation, intermediate, and advanced seminars. Ronnie Smith, Susanna Love, and Reid Bryant also recently partnered to produce a comprehensive and stunningly beautiful history and guide to the Smith System: Training Bird Dogs with Ronnie Smith Kennels: Proven Techniques and an Upland Tradition. Some Smith method trainers are also starting to offer weekly dog training classes based on the method, which allows for continued hands-on work with beginners and their dogs, all the way up to and through advanced Smith method techniques. And for any who are looking for a window into the world of Smith dog training before the invention of the variable e-collars capable of cuing and not just correcting, I’d recommend that you get your hands on a copy of Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog: The Delmar Smith Method. While the methods detailed there are undoubtedly from a much earlier version of the system, it helped me to understand the Smith concepts and evolved e-collar applications, having now read about their analog predecessors.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Below is a quote from your article, which is from the Smith’ which when I follow their process thoroughly, I feel confident I have the capacity to develop a decent, (perhaps not perfect) hunter.

Is the Smith training method good for beginners?​

Speaking from personal experience as a beginner only a few years into the project of training my first bird dog, and from my assistance and/or witness of this method being employed with over a hundred handlers and dogs, I’d present the Smith system as one of the most beginner-friendly methods available. It’s a stair-step method, designed to offer safe harbor to a handler and dog by simply stepping back to previously-mastered steps in the process whenever new tasks are met with resistance. This gives the dog and handler a sufficient opportunity to both reinforce and shore up the handler’s leadership as well as digest the outlines of any new task. The Smith method is also one of the most fully-developed systems for beginners since there is a comprehensive set of resources available for introducing the key concepts and engaging in active, hands-on learning.

Beginners can start with the Huntsmith DVDs; the lessons introduced there can be extended considerably through Rick’s and Ronnie’s foundation, intermediate, and advanced seminars. Ronnie Smith, Susanna Love, and Reid Bryant also recently partnered to produce a comprehensive and stunningly beautiful history and guide to the Smith System: Training Bird Dogs with Ronnie Smith Kennels: Proven Techniques and an Upland Tradition. Some Smith method trainers are also starting to offer weekly dog training classes based on the method, which allows for continued hands-on work with beginners and their dogs, all the way up to and through advanced Smith method techniques. And for any who are looking for a window into the world of Smith dog training before the invention of the variable e-collars capable of cuing and not just correcting, I’d recommend that you get your hands on a copy of Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog: The Delmar Smith Method. While the methods detailed there are undoubtedly from a much earlier version of the system, it helped me to understand the Smith concepts and evolved e-collar applications, having now read about their analog predecessors.

That's why I posted it. If you start with their DVD's system long before your pup arrives you can start setting your goals. Had you already done that we wouldn't have this post. Don't wait til after you get your pup to purchase and study the DVD's and training timeline. You have 2 months to get yourself up to date through the DVD's vs seeking advice on here. Once you purchase and read through their training program, your thoughts will change from taking a dog hunting at 7 months to what steps do I take to prepare my dog for it's first hunt in the field. It isn't about how old a dog can be to take hunting but about what you do and when to know when your dog is ready to go hunting. Good luck and don't rush that puppy. I would think a December timeline would be perfect to start taking that dog hunting. Mine are always ready at 10 months and have completed OB, CC, FF and all the field work by then. Good Luck!

Huntsmith Series Training DVDs + Gear

Huntsmith Series Training DVDs + Gear. All the techniques and equipment featured at Huntsmith Training Seminars Huntsmith: Puppy Development I, Huntsmith: Puppy Development II, Puppy Development I & II Set, Huntsmith: Silent Command System II, Training Bird Dogs with RONNIE SMITH KENNELS...

www.gundogsupply.com

 

[westksbowhunter]

I would also develop a flow chart for yourself. Something like this but for pointing dogs and one that meets your goals.

 

[Quailnerd]

You will do great, you seem curious to methods and ideas.. be patient and enjoy the ride.

 

[Quailnerd]

Dogs teach us more than we teach them anyway!

 

[Skadergen]

That's why I posted it. If you start with their DVD's system long before your pup arrives you can start setting your goals. Had you already done that we wouldn't have this post. Don't wait til after you get your pup to purchase and study the DVD's and training timeline. You have 2 months to get yourself up to date through the DVD's vs seeking advice on here. Once you purchase and read through their training program, your thoughts will change from taking a dog hunting at 7 months to what steps do I take to prepare my dog for it's first hunt in the field. It isn't about how old a dog can be to take hunting but about what you do and when to know when your dog is ready to go hunting. Good luck and don't rush that puppy. I would think a December timeline would be perfect to start taking that dog hunting. Mine are always ready at 10 months and have completed OB, CC, FF and all the field work by then. Good Luck!

Huntsmith Series Training DVDs + Gear

Huntsmith Series Training DVDs + Gear. All the techniques and equipment featured at Huntsmith Training Seminars Huntsmith: Puppy Development I, Huntsmith: Puppy Development II, Puppy Development I & II Set, Huntsmith: Silent Command System II, Training Bird Dogs with RONNIE SMITH KENNELS...

www.gundogsupply.com

I did post in #8 I have purchased and finished one of their videos, Puppy Development, and have the second(Puppy Development II ready to go. Also I am half way through Rick Smith’s book “Training Bird Dogs”

Wasn’t necessarily seeking advice as much as opinions, and engaging in some off season conversation while I wait for my pup.

 

[lubers]

Ok so I’m well aware, I I’m about 98% premature with this question, (so this is just for off season conversation) but if your pups too young to be up to speed, in October, is it bad to have them out during season if their not gun shy?

As a bck story, the pup I’m in line for for a pup who should be born at the beginning of March, so should be getting it in may. While I’m about 98% sure it won’t be close to an efficient or effective hunter in mid October, I can’t see how it would mess it up(as long as I get it properly introduced to gun fire). Essentially this should be a 7.5 month pup, I think I would definitely stay away on opening weekend. But cant think the hun would be much different than training. Am I way off?

Had my pup at the trainers for two months, she just turn 7.5 months. We went out in the field and he had two birds planted. She found and flushed both birds and brought back to hand. Following week I set up a 6 bird hunt at a local game farm. We ended up getting 5 birds and were brought back to hand. We have another pup coming from the same breeder/trainer that should be ready to go home around April. Hope to have her ready also around November or December for a trip out to South Dakota.

 

[Skadergen]

Had my pup at the trainers for two months, she just turn 7.5 months. We went out in the field and he had two birds planted. She found and flushed both birds and brought back to hand. Following week I set up a 6 bird hunt at a local game farm. We ended up getting 5 birds and were brought back to hand. We have another pup coming from the same breeder/trainer that should be ready to go home around April. Hope to have her ready also around November or December for a trip out to South Dakota.

Not only is that impressive that’s encouraging for sure!

 

[Mrben]

When I mentioned buddies I meant hunting partners. I used to hunt with a group not a good idea to bring a young dog to a large group as was covered. In my case my hunting partner these days is a friend who is 79. He has a lab that follows him around. He hunts for a few hours and good. When I mentioned a hunting club I’m not talking about a dog or beagle club but a presurve. A place where you go and pay to hunt pen raised birds. It’s great experience for a young dog. It can really help the shooter to. Another good resource is pointing dog journal magazine. It’s kind of old fashioned but they print stuff on fancy paper and mail it to you in the old box by the road. Lots of good stuff in there and you can save your copy and go back and look at it again. Several successful dog trainers will tell you it takes birds to make a good bird dog. I grew up reading gene hill, George bird evens, Ben O Williams. Those guys were outdoor writers not necessarily dog trainers but lots of good information in there work

 

[Skadergen]

When I mentioned buddies I meant hunting partners. I used to hunt with a group not a good idea to bring a young dog to a large group as was covered. In my case my hunting partner these days is a friend who is 79. He has a lab that follows him around. He hunts for a few hours and good. When I mentioned a hunting club I’m not talking about a dog or beagle club but a presurve. A place where you go and pay to hunt pen raised birds. It’s great experience for a young dog. It can really help the shooter to. Another good resource is pointing dog journal magazine. It’s kind of old fashioned but they print stuff on fancy paper and mail it to you in the old box by the road. Lots of good stuff in there and you can save your copy and go back and look at it again. Several successful dog trainers will tell you it takes birds to make a good bird dog. I grew up reading gene hill, George bird evens, Ben O Williams. Those guys were outdoor writers not necessarily dog trainers but lots of good information in there work

Ok got it, thank you sir. There are 2-3 Hunting preserves in SW Wisconsin I may be able to join or look into joining, honestly never gave that much thought. For come reason my mind went to NAVHDA type of club. I think I may look into the PDJ as well…., I may be a bit old school by default, lol. I do remember and have read many of Gene Hill articles and columns many many moons ago, not sure on the others. My father always subscribed to Sports afield and Field and Stream.

 

[Quailnerd]

I’m getting a new setter pup this spring and one hole in my training in the past that showing up is work on birds on the ground the dog can see. Pigeons in launchers are a great tool but dont help with this temptation. I’ve picked up some drills and excited to take this on!

 

[Skadergen]

I’m getting a new setter pup this spring and one hole in my training in the past that showing up is work on birds on the ground the dog can see. Pigeons in launchers are a great tool but dont help with this temptation. I’ve picked up some drills and excited to take this on!

Are you using carded birds for that?

 

[Quailnerd]

Are you using carded birds for that?

In general yes, got a couple setups I’m going to try on the older dogs this month before the pup shows up.

 

[Bowguy]

I almost never hunt a dog that young. I personally wait til 2 yrs old with an exception being made this year. Lots can go wrong. For instance, say another dog ran in and fought w it? It might get dog shy. Than you say gun broke but you have no control if say you shot and the dog hit barbed wire, cactus, etc. You dont want negative experiences. I will hunt little hounds earlier. If you do it just limit any negative experiences

 

[tops911]

I hunted my youngest Drahthaar on wild birds at 4 months old. Shot my first double on Huns over her. She is a natural retriever and retrieved one of the birds. She hunted wild pheasants at 5 1/2 months. Of course she would loose her mind when we got into a lot of birds, but I kept my expectations low and we got birds and she learned a lot from the wild birds. Get them used to gun fire and a recall and go hunt. The birds will teach the dogs.

 

[rjg0909]

Don't think I would go the preserve route, those birds just let the dogs get too close or let themselves get caught.your dog could pick up some very bad habits. You have no control over the situation. Get gun intro done and really work on recall. Try a local NAVHDA chapter. Maybe a local chapter has training grounds for their members.do lots of puppy walks. Then come fall get out on wild birds, if your in SW wisconsin drive north 4 hours for grouse, or drive 4 hours west in sw mn for wild pheasants. Wild birds will show the dog they can't get too close, it's about the dog the 1st year so don't shoot if the dog doesn't do it right. Have fun, it's a great journey.

 

[Skadergen]

Don't think I would go the preserve route, those birds just let the dogs get too close or let themselves get caught.your dog could pick up some very bad habits. You have no control over the situation. Get gun intro done and really work on recall. Try a local NAVHDA chapter. Maybe a local chapter has training grounds for their members.do lots of puppy walks. Then come fall get out on wild birds, if your in SW wisconsin drive north 4 hours for grouse, or drive 4 hours west in sw mn for wild pheasants. Wild birds will show the dog they can't get too close, it's about the dog the 1st year so don't shoot if the dog doesn't do it right. Have fun, it's a great journey.

Thanks for sure, planning on remote launchers and some pigeons to start with, since I would have control over the release. Due to work schedules sadly a preserve may be the in between between pigeons and a launcher and actual hunting season. Do plan on Minnesota wild birds at some point this fall. Think I may wait one year before I choose to put it in the grouse woods. Want to make sure I can see it and how it responds or potentially bumps birds before I introduce a more dense cover. But trying grouse is on the horizon for sure!