How far back?

D

Deweybagger

New member
How far back in a pedigree does it matter what dog is in its lines?
We're looking for a new pup and have been searching for a while, we were looking at our current dogs paper work when I came across his litters sire AKC name on several other sites and upcoming litters linage.
We thought we just got lucky with our dog natural ability, but now we found out that our dogs sire was some champ that we didnt know anything about. I know there's a lot of field champions and great dogs out there, but now were hopefull that we could get some of the same great traits....is this possible to get some of the traits from two/three generations back?
 
The parents each theoretically contribute 50%. The grand parents 25% and so on. In the real world some dogs or bitches seem to pass along traits better than others. In short 2-3 generations contributes a lot. My experience is Labradors and I like to see 9-10 field titles in the first three generations. I like my dogs pretty high drive, probably a little hotter than most would care for. Look at the mom and dad, if you like what you see and all the clearances are their go for it.
If you are looking at labs you can PM me the pedigree and if I know anything I will share it with you

Steve
 
Gatzby said:
The parents each theoretically contribute 50%. The grand parents 25% and so on. In the real world some dogs or bitches seem to pass along traits better than others. In short 2-3 generations contributes a lot. My experience is Labradors and I like to see 9-10 field titles in the first three generations. I like my dogs pretty high drive, probably a little hotter than most would care for. Look at the mom and dad, if you like what you see and all the clearances are their go for it.
If you are looking at labs you can PM me the pedigree and if I know anything I will share it with you

Steve
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Gatzby I PM'd you, hope I did it right!
 
Gatzby said:
I didn't get anything yet.

We could do it publicly..... But that's a bit risky
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I'm not sure why the PM's not working for me...
If you know how would you feel comfortable sending me a different way to contact you. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
 
Deweybagger asked me about good training books or DVDs and how to get involved with hunt tests or trials:

My favorite training book is by Charles Journey it's a bit old but well done. It parallels Wolters water dog. BUT I read everything I can a grab a little from each. Tom Dokkens book has some great puppy stuff. Sound beginnings by Jackie Mertens is very well respected. Bill Hillmans DVDs are good but he has revised his methods recently so don't buy used ones! For complete programs for field dogs TRT by Mike Lardy and Smartworks by Evan Graham and Fowl Dogs by Rick Stawskie are the main ones. All three are Rex Carr based programs. TRT is my favorite (the dog Tiger featured in the CC section is the father of two of my dogs) so I am biased. Solid works is great and Evan Graham is very accessible if you have problems, he shares his email and phone #. He also posts regularly on RTF and Refugee forums. Rick Stawski is a class act and I have trained at his facility a few times. Ironically I have never watched his DVDs but they are well respected.
AKC, HRC, and NAHRA are the big three hunt test groups. Only AKC holds field trials. The difference between FTs and HTs is trials the dogs are judged against each other tests the dogs are judged against a standard. I run all venues and each has it's strong points. Try them all and see what you like best. For AKC and HRC go to Entry Express to find events near you, for NAHRA go to their website
The best training resource is to join a club and get involved in their training days. Land O Lakes HRC trains at Stoney point and Elk river kennels $50 membership. Four Points NAHRA trains at Kelly farms near Marine on St Croix. Northern Flight AKC trains at Kelly farms. Lake country AKC trains at Horse and Hunt club in Prior lake. Hennipen county retriever club trains near Princeton. Central mn Retriever club AKC trains in Sauk rapids. Central and Hennipen have private grounds that are awesome and each costs $50 a year to join. The last 2 NFC's were owned and handled by members of Central! I am a member of three clubs.

Steve
 
If you're buying the dog to hunt with, my questions would focus entirely on the hunting skills of the parents, not the pedigree.
 
BritChaser said:
If you're buying the dog to hunt with, my questions would focus entirely on the hunting skills of the parents, not the pedigree.
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While I agree the parents are most important I would never discount the additional information from researching pedigrees. ACL injuries are getting more commen and some DVMs feel their maybe a genetic component is one great example. Hip displasia is definetly genetic, I would maybe buy a pup from good/good breeding only if the grandparents were at least excellent/excellent & excellent/good. These are just a couple examples. Besides learning about the great dogs from the past is interesting.

Steve
 
jsdriggs said:
Don't forget about eyes as well. Pedigree history can exhibit strong eye health too.
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Dang right. All good marking dogs have something in common. Great eyes
 
Thank you guys for your helpful responses. I hope to learn a lot with this pup and do a lot more training, I often wonder if my dog could have been one of the "greats" had I known how to train or taken him to a professional. We have shot over 100 birds three years in a row, my dog had zero training....this must say a lot about a dogs pedigree. Now this might not be that great by standards in states with high bird populations, but where we live a 8 bird weekend is a typical year for most.
Until recently we never payed attention to a pedigree, I just assumed a pup was a 100 percent crap shoot, I understand its still no guarantee but certainly a great foundation.
Being new to this site this past fall I've learned a lot reading people's stories and encounters, reading helpful posts from guys like you with years of real field knowledge, willing to help a total stranger!

Thanks a bunch!
 
Deweybagger said:
Thank you guys for your helpful responses. I hope to learn a lot with this pup and do a lot more training, I often wonder if my dog could have been one of the "greats" had I known how to train or taken him to a professional. We have shot over 100 birds three years in a row, my dog had zero training....this must say a lot about a dogs pedigree. Now this might not be that great by standards in states with high bird populations, but where we live a 8 bird weekend is a typical year for most.
Until recently we never payed attention to a pedigree, I just assumed a pup was a 100 percent crap shoot, I understand its still no guarantee but certainly a great foundation.
Being new to this site this past fall I've learned a lot reading people's stories and encounters, reading helpful posts from guys like you with years of real field knowledge, willing to help a total stranger!

Thanks a bunch!
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You are welcome, I talk retrievers when ever I can.

PS 2 siblings (not litter mates) of NFC Dewey qualified for the Master National last weekend in Texas. I meant to ask how old they were, I am guessing they must be older dogs.
 
The money's spent, new pup comes home in about a month. I chose a litter with some of the same blood as my Jake and what looks to be a talent filled sire side.
Ordered the Sound Beginnings Retriever training DVD as recommended,
Got Tom Dokkens Retriever Training book on the table....time to train the trainer! Got a month to learn the what's and when's.
Most importantly I've got the green light from the warden to spend some cash on a little help from a trainer, I've got my trainer choice lined up for the day he turns 6 months but open to suggestions. Exciting times, I feel like a little kid waiting for Christmas!
 
If you have a ton of money to spend on 'trainers' then it won't much matter.

I did not and do not. I bought a humphries llewellin. A little yardwork and whoa training (which was sketchy on my part). Then planted pigeons. I know I put down less than 20 birds. He got it.

We don't hunt ribbons so all that stuff doesn't mean much to me or my dog.

But I put him down at less than a year with a 2 year old dog that was 'professionally trained' and the owner watched my pup range for about 5 minutes and put his dog up.

This year we drove to where pheasants are planted and got there late. All the stupid birds were dead. Only smart ones left. My pup, having never seen a pheasant, pointed them until they ran into the heavy brush. Then the light went on and he began circling them and cutting them off.

Can't pay anyone to train your dog to do that. Or more precisely, you can pay all you can stand to pay but no guarantee the 'trainer' can get your dog to do that.
 
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