gun conditioning...the good the bad and the ugly
- Thread starter chrokeva
- Start date
Kismet
UPH Guru
The professionals have better ideas and wider-ranging experience, but for what it's worth, I'd say...
unless you are going to start shooting pigeons, why not stay with the starter pistol and work on your other training for a while. There's no advantage to using the shotgun for a while, and if the pup is having a good time learning the other things--like humans can CATCH a bird in mid-air (wow!)--I'd say keep the game up as it stands.
When the time approaches to to shoot birds, then go to the shotgun.
But really, I doubt it is going to make any difference, whether now or then. You are being cautious and conscientious...you're fine.
unless you are going to start shooting pigeons, why not stay with the starter pistol and work on your other training for a while. There's no advantage to using the shotgun for a while, and if the pup is having a good time learning the other things--like humans can CATCH a bird in mid-air (wow!)--I'd say keep the game up as it stands.
When the time approaches to to shoot birds, then go to the shotgun.
But really, I doubt it is going to make any difference, whether now or then. You are being cautious and conscientious...you're fine.
Natty Bumpo
Member
So we are working my 7 month old pup on gun conditioning since we finally were able to get a field where we can shoot off a blank pistol close to our home. Things are going pretty well (thanks mostly to the dog and not much thanks to me).
Day one was a messy training session with birds flying off and being caught in mid air by my assistant (i.e. husband). I really had no idea what to do when this happened and the only thing I could think of was to tell her she was a good girl even though clearly she must have been confused (I sure was!). FYI we started shooting the pistol much further out to start with and used live birds for the entire training session so she did have some good experiences that day (the video was the bad experience).
http://youtu.be/uWIEIofhK2o
Day two was much better as we took the live birds out of the equation. It seems less things to think about works out better for us...haha. Clearly I do not have a clue and just feeling thankful that my dog is forgiving of my screw ups.
http://youtu.be/x1Qun9TtP4s
OK by now many of you old timers are probably rolling on the floor laughing. Luckily the dog seems no worse for wear and seems to have no sensitivity to the starter pistol. I figure we will do another day or two with the starter pistol then work up to a shotgun from a further distance. Does that sound like the right approach or should I be spending more time with the starter pistol? She really seems unaffected by the pistol firing (and I have been watching closely). If anything she is excited and looking for birds or bumpers when she hears it go off....of course some of that may be due to the live bird fiasco from day one.
Seriously...................????
PM Sent..... again........
NB
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birdshooter
Well-known member
The most sure fire way to introduce gun fire to a pup for the first time is to use training birds ala (pigeons). Get the pup excited about the bird first and foremost so that his total concentration is that bird. Pull some primary feathers off one wing so it will only be able to fly about 20 yards or so. Toss the bird, as the pup sees the bird coming down and is in full pursuit have someone fire off a blank pistol. Now this part is important. Look for any reaction (negative or otherwise). If he stops in mid stride and looks back at the sound, then there is obviously something that bothered him about it and you should cease anymore gun fire for the time being. The whole idea behind the exercise of using the clipped wing pigeon is the shot will then be imprinted with a bird "coming down". He hears a shot and looks for a bird coming down.
Using this method and done properly you reduce the chance greatly of any negative experience with gun fire.
Using this method and done properly you reduce the chance greatly of any negative experience with gun fire.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Not how I do it. I start them at 7 weeks at feeding time. My wife puts out the food and as the pup is diving into it I fire the starting pistol, with Crimps, from about 100 yds away. Basically they don't hear it. I will work my way in about 10 yds per week until we get to 50 yds. Then we transition it over to birds. And again at a distance of 100 yds to start. As the bird is in the air and the pup is driving to the retrieve, we fire the crimp. Then work our way in. By the time the pup is 6 months old we can fire the gun at the pups side as it is driving for the retrieve. Makes an easy transition to shooting birds.
Anytime you are doing a training session and you have to look for a negative reaction to the gun, well you simply are not training. To me, introducing them to birds and gunfire at the same time is not advisable. You may end up with a bird shy or gun shy dog. Eating is natural and not something you are training.
I also start over a bit when going to a shotgun. After force fetching and obedience, at about 7 months, we will start throwing marks in the field. As the bird is thrown and the dog is focused on the bird and with the bird in the air, we will shoot the shotgun. Again the distance is 75-100 yds. I generally do not shoot over the top of my dog until they are 10 months or so. And there is only 1 gunner. Not 3 or 4 guns going off at once.
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I know many people have different opinions on how to introduce a dog to gun fire but here's how I have gun broke my dogs in the past. I start as soon as my new pup is comfortable with me and its surroundings. Similar to WESTKSBOWHUNTER I will also fire off a cap gun when it's feeding time and while training to fetch (I start right away with fetch) I clap loudly each time I throw the dummy to get them use to a loud noise and the fetch command. I've only trained three GSP's so far but within a week or two they have all been regular fetching buddies. Shortly after I will introduce them to a smaller dead bird like a quail or dove/pigeon and get them retrieving it ( the pup should already be pointing wings before this IMO).
Any time my new pup encounters a bird I try to make it really fun for them to instill their prey drive. Once the dog is retrieving dead birds and is excited about them I will start to introduce my dogs to gunfire. I have used this approach every time I've had a new dog and have even helped a few friends gun break their own and have never had a hick up. First you'll need a friend willing to help with a shotgun and a dead bird. The shooter starts at 200 yards while the handler is with the dog on a short leash in one hand and a bird in the other. When the handler raising the bird above his head the shooter shoots one shot and a second later the handler throws the bird. If the dog already has a drive for birds established the shot will only distract the dog for a split second until it sees a bird falling from the sky. The shooter then works 25-50 yards closer on each shot while the handler is repeating the bird toss on each shot until the shooter is shooting right next to the dog. After that all of my dogs have been ready to hunt and my best female so far was gun broke and "attempting" to hunt wild birds at 3.5 months old. I say if you can start them young and make it fun you'll end up with a hell of bird dog.
Good luck!
Any time my new pup encounters a bird I try to make it really fun for them to instill their prey drive. Once the dog is retrieving dead birds and is excited about them I will start to introduce my dogs to gunfire. I have used this approach every time I've had a new dog and have even helped a few friends gun break their own and have never had a hick up. First you'll need a friend willing to help with a shotgun and a dead bird. The shooter starts at 200 yards while the handler is with the dog on a short leash in one hand and a bird in the other. When the handler raising the bird above his head the shooter shoots one shot and a second later the handler throws the bird. If the dog already has a drive for birds established the shot will only distract the dog for a split second until it sees a bird falling from the sky. The shooter then works 25-50 yards closer on each shot while the handler is repeating the bird toss on each shot until the shooter is shooting right next to the dog. After that all of my dogs have been ready to hunt and my best female so far was gun broke and "attempting" to hunt wild birds at 3.5 months old. I say if you can start them young and make it fun you'll end up with a hell of bird dog.
Good luck!
FCSpringer
Moderator
I don't own a starter pistol. But we do have a full proof method that has worked on hundreds of dogs. If you want to know feel free to PM. Always happy to help someone.
BritChaser
Well-known member
'Bout what I did. Took pup on country walks and about every five minutes touched off a .44 round while pup was out front and just kept walking, didn't say anything, as if loud noises may be just part of being out in the country. Worked like a charm.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
BC you crack me up! Shootin over your dog with a .44 :10sign::cheers:
Shootin over your dog with a .44 :10sign::cheers:
BritChaser
Well-known member
BC you crack me up!
No, not over. I was behind and putting the rounds in the ground. Still, plenty of noise.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
No, not over. I was behind and putting the rounds in the ground. Still, plenty of noise.
over, under, thats not what I was laughing about.
I could see us all sitting around..... hey what do you use..," a cap gun" ,you..." a popgun".hey bc what about you
Kismet
UPH Guru
Chrokeva? You have no reason to be sorry about the posting.
That's the whole purpose of the Ultimate Pheasant Hunting Forum: to help folks learn about training, shooting, ammo, skill sets, locations, factors affecting the raising, training, and working with dogs and setting up conditions on their properties for the nurturing and nourishment of wild upland game birds.
Whole bunch of folks go waaaaay out of their way to help educate youth and newcomers to the sport and the sportsmanship, because they are convinced that it is a part of the way of life for a healthy person, and a healthy citizen. A bunch more let us know about organizations that help develop habitat and discourage predation--both by critters and "civilization."
You ask away, hear?
Thank you Kismet and thank you everyone for the great suggestions. There are lots of very knowledgeable people on here and I appreciate them taking there time to help out us people just starting out. I have so many questions and realize that I can use all the help I can get. In the end I will need to use a pro trainer to help guide me through the training process but I really do not want to send my dog off to be trained and would prefer to be as hands on with her as is possible.
For the most part I feel good about how our first introductions to gun fire have gone with my pup and do not foresee any problems at this point. Our timing on the birds was not the best but I will keep working on it as it seems the one thing that almost everyone agrees with is using birds when introducing gun fire is a good thing.
For the most part I feel good about how our first introductions to gun fire have gone with my pup and do not foresee any problems at this point. Our timing on the birds was not the best but I will keep working on it as it seems the one thing that almost everyone agrees with is using birds when introducing gun fire is a good thing.
brirshooter has it rright.
Just finished our pup . Started 50 yards away with 22 blank. helper had the gun. I worked pup with harnessed quail. Got the pup loving the bird. Then Shot. I watch for any sign of her noticing it. If she did more birds. She did not . We did that with a 22 blank, then worked till my helper is next to us, Do the same thing with a 410 guage and a 20 guage and lastly a 12 guage,
She just came today on a dove hunt. Lots of shooting and was on a stake . She never flinched and watched every bird.
Best of luck with your dog.
Just finished our pup . Started 50 yards away with 22 blank. helper had the gun. I worked pup with harnessed quail. Got the pup loving the bird. Then Shot. I watch for any sign of her noticing it. If she did more birds. She did not . We did that with a 22 blank, then worked till my helper is next to us, Do the same thing with a 410 guage and a 20 guage and lastly a 12 guage,
She just came today on a dove hunt. Lots of shooting and was on a stake . She never flinched and watched every bird.
Best of luck with your dog.
birdshooter
Well-known member
Just finished our pup . Started 50 yards away with 22 blank. helper had the gun. I worked pup with harnessed quail. Got the pup loving the bird. Then Shot. I watch for any sign of her noticing it. If she did more birds. She did not . We did that with a 22 blank, then worked till my helper is next to us, Do the same thing with a 410 guage and a 20 guage and lastly a 12 guage,
She just came today on a dove hunt. Lots of shooting and was on a stake . She never flinched and watched every bird.
Best of luck with your dog.
Thanks for the compliment. I think most well bred pups will not have an issue with gunfire providing you don't do something incredibly stupid like tie them on a stake out at the trap range.
I just think that the gun should be associated with birds and specifically a bird coming down. The pup hears a shot and instinctively looks for a bird coming down. Banging pans together IMO just doesn't seem to make much sense to me, but to each their own.
BritChaser
Well-known member
over, under, thats not what I was laughing about.
hey bc what about you
That .44 is all I've got handgunwise. It's quite versatile.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
That .44 is all I've got handgunwise. It's quite versatile.
it'd make a good club
i'm just ribbing you..a man's got to entertain himself right?
I think done right you could gun condition a dog with firecrackers in a trash can. So no I'm not questioning your methods. Sometimes I just need a good laugh.:cheers:
mustistuff
Banned
birds and guns
one point, if the dog has good genes it just might be hard work to make it gun shy. on the other hand, having some weak genes, just might make it hard work to make him loving guns. a dog can give off a lot of hints to this is one were to look. anyway, I have broken quite a few dogs to gunfire and over a period of years have used most of the methods that you read about, yet to have a set back. when you are using birds to break your dog to the gun, do be careful and put some thought into in. if things don't go as planned, several things can happen, one is that you end up with a dog that doesn't like guns, a dog that because of the noise, now doesn't like birds and if you are really unlucky, a dog that is afraid of birds or both. take it slow
cheers
one point, if the dog has good genes it just might be hard work to make it gun shy. on the other hand, having some weak genes, just might make it hard work to make him loving guns. a dog can give off a lot of hints to this is one were to look. anyway, I have broken quite a few dogs to gunfire and over a period of years have used most of the methods that you read about, yet to have a set back. when you are using birds to break your dog to the gun, do be careful and put some thought into in. if things don't go as planned, several things can happen, one is that you end up with a dog that doesn't like guns, a dog that because of the noise, now doesn't like birds and if you are really unlucky, a dog that is afraid of birds or both. take it slow
cheers
wilsoncs3980
New member
I used a very similar method.
I started taking my pups for walks in the woods when they were 12 weeks old letting them explore and learn to use their noses. At about 5 or 6 months old I'd shoot a 22 blank when they were a hundred yards away. Never stopped walking, just acted like nothing happened. Each day I would repeat while they were closer and closer until I was shooting with them next to me. I then started shooting my .40 cal glock, going back to them being out a good ways and working them closer. It's a method that works. I think someone on here suggested it to me.
I started taking my pups for walks in the woods when they were 12 weeks old letting them explore and learn to use their noses. At about 5 or 6 months old I'd shoot a 22 blank when they were a hundred yards away. Never stopped walking, just acted like nothing happened. Each day I would repeat while they were closer and closer until I was shooting with them next to me. I then started shooting my .40 cal glock, going back to them being out a good ways and working them closer. It's a method that works. I think someone on here suggested it to me.