Grouse/Woodcock vs Pheasants

T

Thinblueline

Member
I know this is a pheasant hunting website but I’m wondering if those who have experienced both the pursuit of ruffed grouse and woodcock in the northern aspen and alder forests of the upper Midwest and northeast, and pheasants in the cornfields and prairies of the Dakotas and adjacent states, could share which of those two pursuits you’d choose to spend your limited vacation time if you’re not retired. I’d also be curious to know why you picked the one over the other. Thanks for entertaining the question if you choose to do so.
 
I would make my decision based on projected bird populations and put my dog in the best situation to succeed.
Accommodations and public access are other factors. Having hunted in all the midwestern states over 55 years chasing upland birds, it would be my choice to choose the Dakotas or Montana. My $.02 and my dogs $.02
 
I continue to hunt both ... grew up on the prairies but have to say I pursued grouse and woodcock pretty hard in my 30s and 40s. All Minnesota.

I rarely hunted very far north and never Ontario for ruffs. I typically hunted grouse and woodcock 50 - 125 miles from the Twin Cities metro, which generally translates to higher pressured birds. Most hunts were day trips and the vast majority were (and still are today) half day trips.

Mostly public, but access to some fantastic private ground which has become smaller with changes in ownership and bird numbers down the past 3 years because of spring and summer weather.

I averaged around 3-4 birds a day combined ... some days all grouse, some all woodcock and some days a mix. I would say my average now is about 1 - 3 birds per day for a variety of reasons.

I move to mostly pheasants November and December with an occasional winter grouse hunt is snow depth was light. Grouse tend to move up in the trees making dog work less fun and trudging through the woods in moderate to deep snow is not that fun either.

I would say that the number one reason I now hunt less days of ruffed grouse in October is ... much of the last 5 - 8 years ... October has been very warm (often 70s and 80s) and much windier. It makes morning hunts the preferred route vs. 3PM to dark.
 
Wind river is dead on. I would only add hunting pressure. I would rather shoot a few of one and never see another hunter than shoot many of the other while fighting for a place to hunt. I experienced the greatest grouse hunting in the 80's here in southern Indiana. The birds were plentiful, extremely wild and very challenging terrain. These were the same years as the glory days of Iowa. I would have picked grouse as # 1 at that time because of the challenge. Then I went up around Ely Min. to hunt grouse. I was shocked at the amount of road hunters!! All the trails were being hunted off 4 wheelers. I only met one guy with a dog. I did shoot 9 in 5 days but I haven't been back. I'm planning a trip to the U.P. this year, so I'll give you my final answer then..
 
birddude said:
Wind river is dead on. I would only add hunting pressure. I would rather shoot a few of one and never see another hunter than shoot many of the other while fighting for a place to hunt. I experienced the greatest grouse hunting in the 80's here in southern Indiana. The birds were plentiful, extremely wild and very challenging terrain. These were the same years as the glory days of Iowa. I would have picked grouse as # 1 at that time because of the challenge. Then I went up around Ely Min. to hunt grouse. I was shocked at the amount of road hunters!! All the trails were being hunted off 4 wheelers. I only met one guy with a dog. I did shoot 9 in 5 days but I haven't been back. I'm planning a trip to the U.P. this year, so I'll give you my final answer then..
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With a lot of research and some leg work ... you can find much, much land and trails in MN where road hunters and ATVs cannot pursue. Ely, parts of the Arrowhead region, and parts of the Walker, and Grand Rapids area are all well know road hunting areas. The Chippewa and Superior National Forests are some of the worst for road hunting and actually RGS documents the worst (rarely find clear cuts) managed for ruffed grouse.

Some 30 years ago a friend of mine and his brother decided to paddle the BigFork river ... for 2+ days they paddled, grouse hunted, and camped. They were surrounded by four wheelers ... they were shocked.

If you hunt mostly weekdays ... I see few other hunters, albeit ... people density has "doubled" in the covid era. Some if not most of those vehicles parked at trailheads are often hikers these days vs. grouse hunters.
 
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Live in Northern Lower Peninsula and being a forester I spend most of my time chasing grouse and woodcock. Most days it is pretty common to limit on woodcock and typically have a good chance at a grouse or two. As mentioned earlier if the birds cooperate it doesnt get any better. However, as a solo hunter grouse can be very frustrating and in the sense Aspen stands the bird may flush 20 yards away and you never even see them. Hunting pressure is increasing and both grouse and woodcock are starting to walk away from the points. If the flight birds are in it is possible to have a 30pt day in a small patch of aspen, can be very fun. I oversee the management of roughly 278K acres of state land and michigan has roughly 4 million acres of forest lands to hunt, so we are blessed in that realm. However, first couple weeks my area looks like the dakotas with all the hunters, which is great for the local economies.

I grew up hunting pheasants hunting and will always be my first love, michigan doesn't have much of a wild pheasant population so all my hunting is out west either SD or NE. I'm still frustrated often when pheasant hunting mainly because of my shooting, but at least I can get a shot at the majority of birds my dogs encounter.

If I had my choice I would spend my time chasing pheasants out west. I feel you will have better shooting opportunities in the prairies and higher chance of harvesting birds, which is how many determine a successful hunt. Grouse and woodcock are pretty much solitary birds so you won't get chances for multiple bird flush and even if you do the dense forest will limit your chances. Rarely get more than 2 shots at any grouse or woodcock. Couple videos to give you an ides of cover. Will upload other when it is available.
 
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I've pretty much given up grouse hunting, in favor of pheasants. First, I'm in my mid sixties and it's harder to move through the muck, climb over/under/through brush, dead-falls, etc. Second, my ES usually ranges from 50 to 150yds in the woods...takes a minute for the collar to signal the dog is on point, and takes me another 3-4 minute to get to her. By that time, the bird usually has walked or flown away...half my fault, half the dogs, and as another has said, it seems the birds are more educated on the dogs. So, I've redirected my hunting to pheasants, and ducks...I like the woods, but I'm taking a real liking to the open spaces of the prairie pothole region.
 
I also hunt both. Die hard pheasant so typically hunt grouse in September and then chase roosters. If you love the sweet smell of decaying leaves and seeing NO other hunters...enjoy grouse. If you prefer some action....go pheasant. I do look forward to hunting both.
I'll throw in one more consideration....if you have a wide ranging dog and hunt wolf county (WI)...it may be better to avoid grouse if you're going to be nervous and not enjoy the day. I had one sit at 30 yards from the camper one night this year and he wouldn't move. Came out later and he was on the other side...those big yellow eyes can be chilling...kept dog on a leash to go to bathroom after dark.
 
BRITTMAN said:
On those crisp days with light winds ... woodcock flight in and ruffs dispersed and holding to point ... for me can't get any better than that.
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Really ! My best day ever was when a flight of Doodles were in. Doodles and Ruffs, wow what a combination. We had about 30 points in 2 hours or so. Extremely hard to beat that. I have some great days Rooster hunting, but....
 
I’m just trying to figure out where I want to go this fall. I’ve done some of both and I find both frustrating. In the north woods of Wisconsin, grouse are neurotic and flush wild most of the time, usually keeping out of sight as they go which makes for less than an ideal bird for the dogs to deal with. Heck, even the woodcock are becoming neurotic.

I took one of my dogs to South Dakota one time for five days by myself, in the Huron area in early November of 2019 I think and I found very few roosters on public land. The few I saw flushed way the heck out of gun range, and that’s with no bell on my dog, and no verbal communication whatsoever. I think I came away with one bird in five days, and I saw less than a half dozen in ditches over the course of five days. I think 2019 was supposed to be a bad year, but I don’t have much confidence in getting my dogs on many birds out there on public land. From what I understand there is a parade of hunters hitting those public parcels most days, which would explain the lack of birds or the advanced education degrees the birds have. For that reason, I wonder if I should just keep at the grouse.

I do have friends in south central North Dakota, but from the sounds of it, that state’s hey day has come and gone for pheasants and it’s the same thing with their public areas in decent pheasant country getting hit by a parade of hunters.

I want to get these dogs into as many birds as I can in the relatively short amount of time I have to do it, but I might just have to roll the dice and make the best of it. I’m kind of leaning to North Dakota because the lodging issue, if nothing else, is taken care of.
 
Thinblueline said:
I’m just trying to figure out where I want to go this fall. I’ve done some of both and I find both frustrating. In the north woods of Wisconsin, grouse are neurotic and flush wild most of the time, usually keeping out of sight as they go which makes for less than an ideal bird for the dogs to deal with. Heck, even the woodcock are becoming neurotic.

I took one of my dogs to South Dakota one time for five days by myself, in the Huron area in early November of 2019 I think and I found very few roosters on public land. The few I saw flushed way the heck out of gun range, and that’s with no bell on my dog, and no verbal communication whatsoever. I think I came away with one bird in five days, and I saw less than a half dozen in ditches over the course of five days. I think 2019 was supposed to be a bad year, but I don’t have much confidence in getting my dogs on many birds out there on public land. From what I understand there is a parade of hunters hitting those public parcels most days, which would explain the lack of birds or the advanced education degrees the birds have. For that reason, I wonder if I should just keep at the grouse.

I do have friends in south central North Dakota, but from the sounds of it, that state’s hey day has come and gone for pheasants and it’s the same thing with their public areas in decent pheasant country getting hit by a parade of hunters.

I want to get these dogs into as many birds as I can in the relatively short amount of time I have to do it, but I might just have to roll the dice and make the best of it. I’m kind of leaning to North Dakota because the lodging issue, if nothing else, is taken care of.
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I would go back to SD. The best advice for SD is to be willing to change areas. Bird numbers may not be great in one area, but 50-100 miles away they may be great. Plenty of birds on public, but they are smart. When I go by myself I expect to have an opportunity at a limit every day and when I go with someone else, I expect us to have 4-6 opportunities a day. Some days we find more birds, but normally kill at least 3 a day.
 
Not sure if this helps, but I'll throw in my $0.02. It's commonly known that the best thing you can do to develop a good gun dog is give them lots of experience. I would add that the best thing you can do as a hunter is give yourself more experience chasing pheasants. In no way, shape or form is this meant to be disparaging. Quite the contrary. Local guys that know the public land in their area get to be pretty savvy at guessing when/where the pheasants will be based purely on success/failure. Pheasants, particularly roosters, are wily and can be challenging, but they can also become predictable. Time of day, weather influences, crop harvest, etc., all play a role in determining the daily movements of pheasants. Plus, we do have the best sunsets. ;) Best of luck on whichever you decide to do.
 
I would hunt grouse 100% of the time if I could, but I can't. To me there is no more difficult bird to hunt, and no more difficult to actually put in the bag. And no better table fare than ruffed grouse, IMO. And i am talking about ruffed grouse not sharp tails or any other versions.

I hunt pheasants more than anything because that's what I have the opportunity to hunt the most.
 
AtTheMurph said:
I would hunt grouse 100% of the time if I could, but I can't. To me there is no more difficult bird to hunt, and no more difficult to actually put in the bag. And no better table fare than ruffed grouse, IMO. And i am talking about ruffed grouse not sharp tails or any other versions.

I hunt pheasants more than anything because that's what I have the opportunity to hunt the most.
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I would agree with you 100 percent as for ruffed grouse on the table. Hands down the best eating bird there is to hunt. A definite cut above a pheasant and I’d give it a slight edge over quail.
 
AtTheMurph said:
I would hunt grouse 100% of the time if I could, but I can't. To me there is no more difficult bird to hunt, and no more difficult to actually put in the bag. And no better table fare than ruffed grouse, IMO. And i am talking about ruffed grouse not sharp tails or any other versions.

I hunt pheasants more than anything because that's what I have the opportunity to hunt the
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All of my hunting in the past decade has been in Minnesota for upland birds.

Grouse are a tough nut for me to crack. I only hunt them once per fall, usually late October in the Chippewa National Forest. My lab has trouble with them too. I can count the number of grouse I've put in the bag on one hand over the past decade. I hear a fair number of them flush, but in the rare case I do see it, even more rare is getting off a reasonable shot.

I put roosters in the bag almost every time I hunt. I have permission at private, untouched land that is about an hour from my house. My dog is just used to hunting and scenting them more too. I enjoy pheasant hunting just as much, but a rooster is not as nice of a prize as a ruff.

That being said, every time I bag a grouse it is a rare treat in my book. I'm seriously impressed by hunters who consistently bag ruffed grouse.
 
Secret to grousing is finding them in cover where you actually get a good shot. I have some areas you will flush 25-30 birds in a half of day, but never get a good opportunity because of the wall of evergreens. Quail in a pasture provide a good chance to end up in my vest, but drop a covey on a creek bank and they win every time. Imagine small quicker grouse in a bird explosion. When grouse numbers are up, a limit is very reasonable.
Now on the grill it's quail (wrapped in thin bacon), grouse, huns, phez and then everything else in Booyah.
 
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