General training

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Craig mac

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I have a 11 month old female vizsla, who Id like to get into upland birds more seriously now. I introduced her to dove and other small game when she was very young and right off the batt she was mouthing and carying dead game around happily. What Im gonna start doing now is using pigeons to plant in fields and allow her to find and hopefully point them. One issue that im not thrilled about is her retrieving habbits. She will retreive anything I throw as long as there arent any terrible distractions. The problem is when she picks up the item(bird, ball, stick) she doesnt bring it right back to me (outside) she runs past, dances around and wants me to chase her. Ive done lots of retireves in the controlled areas of the house and given her lots of praise and treats, for work well done. It seems that outside is her real downside. I know she is still young, and immature, but id like to solve this problem soon if I can. I guess ill have to put her on a long cord and reel her in when she tries to run past. Any advice on the retrieving issue would be great! Also, if anyone has advice on things to remeber while intruducing her to live planted birds I would be very greatful for that also. Craig
 
Here is an old trainers trick that may work for you. Don't chase her what ever you do. Next time she does it leave the item in her mouth and walk away. Important say Nothing. Just go and keep your back to her. Soon she will see you are not playing and come and follow you. Let her follow or walk at heel for a bit. Most dogs if they know how to heel will naturally do it. Then stop, kneel on 1 knee, and just hold out your hand. If you wish you could say "drop" as you hold out hand. Hopefully she will come gave you the item in your hand.......Bob
 
I have tried what this method and it works somtimes, but other times if it seems that I loose interest in the game she does to. My gut tells me to use the check cord and reel her in. Guess ill have to just work with her more and give the cord a try.

Thanks for the info
Craig
 
I wouldn't go that far yet. She is only 11 months old. Basicly still a pup give her some time to get the puppy out. One more thing it sounds like you are weak on is Obedience. She has to know when you command here/come. That means right now and with the birds or play toy in your mouth. I would not play the games with her, when you go back and reinforce your basic obedience......Bob
 
obedience

Yea I suppose that could be true. She will come 8 out of 10 times, but is not perfect at it yet. I was under the impression that they really have to be off leash for some time everyday to run and use up some energy, so when we go to the park and other trails and such I usually allow her to be off leash. Do you think this is a bad idea? She is much happier and does behave quite well when she has that freedom. I will sometimes let her drag around a long light weight cord and if she doesnt listen to my command I step on it or tug it as a reminder. seems to work. Also, What do you think the best approach to teaching the "whoa" command is?

Craig
 
Bob is right, go back and work on your basic obedience. The dog is still young and it's good she is retrieving like she is. But she has to have the basic commands down without hesitation. I think once she responds positively to the "come" command 100% of the time your problem will be solved.
 
I can tell you how I did "Whoa" with Tony. I would take him for a walk in the park with the check cord on. I would walk him up close to me. I would stop and say "Whoa." I then would walkout in front of him a ways and command him to "come" to me. Teaching 2 commands at once. A few things here; the dog will want to follow you. Stop and carry it back to the place you first said 'Whoa", Hold up your hand "palm to the Dog", Say "Whoa" again and try walking away. Keep doing this until it stays put and does not move. Once you have had a successful try, give it some praise and let it know she did right and made you happy. Then walk a bit with the dog close and do it all over again. About 3-4 times in one training session is the limit. Be very patient and gentle, they will really try you with this. If you lose your patients, just put the dog away for the day. You gain nothing by getting mad at it. Tony caught on quick and it only took a few days and he was doing it. When you hold up your hand you are teaching the hand signal to "Whoa". Sometimes when Tony is pointing a bird, he will creep as I'm kicking the brush to flush the bird. Usually the bird is moving or running out on us. I just hold up my hand to make him hold point where he is. If I want him to relocate, I then give him that command........Bob
 
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The past few days ive been using a very similar approach to yours Bob. I have her on a long lead and as we walk I pick random times to quickly say whoa! with a tug on the lead. She is responding to them all but doesnt always stop on a dime. For many months I have used my hand to show her when I want her to stay where she is and she is always responsive to the hand. But thus far the hand has been associated with the command "stay". Do you think I should be able to incorporate whoa and the hand single or just give up one of the commands. You see, I know she knows "stay" pretty well, but I would like to use "whoa" to stop her when shes pointing game...

Any thoughts?
 
That is a good question. I ran into the same thing with Tony. There are times I will still say "Stay" to him. But that is mainly in the house. In the field I have him trained to stop on "Whoa". I actually have him trained mostly to whistle on "Whoa" in the field. At times, I do still use Voice and Hand as I told of before. There are times your voice just won't reach or penetrate through the bush and stuff. But I taught basic "Whoa" first, hand and voice. Then when he was real good at the hand and voice stuff. I would Command "whoa" and quickly blow the whistle. After doing this a few times I just blew the whistle until he learned to stop on the whistle. I use 2 short blasts on the whistle to "Come" and one long blast for "Whoa". That is purely a suggestion you use the system you think best.......Bob
 
Yea, I think im gonna contiue walking her with the lead and doing the "whoa" command at random intervals, it seems to be working. Shes always responds by stoping, but she will somtimes sniff around and not stay steady. When I use a certain tone she picks up my urgency right away and will stop on a dime, But its hard to use the same tone with the word "whoa". With time and practice Im sure shell be fine. Ive been thinking about introducing the wistle. Is it to late? If not, what suggestions can you give that haven proven successful for you. Thanks

Craig
 
Craig mac said:
Yea, I think im gonna contiue walking her with the lead and doing the "whoa" command at random intervals, it seems to be working. Shes always responds by stoping, but she will somtimes sniff around and not stay steady. When I use a certain tone she picks up my urgency right away and will stop on a dime, But its hard to use the same tone with the word "whoa". With time and practice Im sure shell be fine. Ive been thinking about introducing the wistle. Is it to late? If not, what suggestions can you give that haven proven successful for you. Thanks

Craig
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Hey Craig,

All I can say is repetition is the key. The one thing I did with my Vizsla was use the Whoa command ONLY when pointing something. I would only use it when it is associated with prey, that way they know when you use that word, it is only associated with a bird and it is game on (no pun intended), and a bird will soon be flushed for the shot. I never use the whoa command for general purpose to get him to stop. I use his name to stop him and wait for my command. He is pretty good about stopping and turning to see what we are going to do. I also use the whistle in the field to come back to me if I lose sight of him in heavy cover. I began the whoa command as soon as I saw him on point (about eleven weeks old). So what if it was a moth! :10sign:, he was pointing. I then used the whoa command EVERY time he pointed ANYTHING. Never discourage him from pointing anything. This is the dogs prey drive showing through and should never be discouraged in any way, whether it be a moth, sparrow or piece of dust blowing in the wind. Obviously, followed up with a lot of "lovin them up". As far as the retrieving issue, I think the only thing you can do is put her on a check cord and physically bring her back every time she picks up the object you want them to retrieve. Again, as you stated you are doing, a lot of praise thereafter. She'll get it.

There is a lot of great advice here, and this is what has worked for me and my Vizsla "Cutter". I hope this can help you out to some degree.

Good Hunting.

Paul
 
I always force break my dogs to retrieve. I don't have any problems with them retrieving after that. This makes them a very good and dependable dog.
 
That sounds like a stout way to use "whoa" keeps it simple for them. Like I said if I wisper and slow down my movements she knows right away that were on somthing and burries her nose in the ground. But thats when I know somthings near by. Isnt she supposed to show me? ha. We havent done any planted bird work yet, so ive yet to see her point anything that she cant see. I hope she will look decent and not flush things out. If she does I guess thats when the check cord and "whoa" come in. Do you guys think its wise to start force fetching her? will she still be able to pick it up at her age (11 months)? How do I train force fetching anyway? Seems like it may confuse her. Thanks

Craig
 
Craig, It is never to late to teach something. I would let her get "Whoa" firmly mastered. Then I would go to the whistle. Less confusing and the Voice and Hand will be alright for a while......Bob
 
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