First time for both of us

F

flyfishz

New member
So i finally got my hunting license. Decided to go Pheasant hunting as my first trip. I was told a dog was required for all first time hunters and the club was all booked on their dogs. I asked if i could bring my 6 year old lab Chip.

They said "bring the ball chaser but don't expect much" I responded well he is really smart and does obey well so i think he has potential.

Showed up at the club and was greeted with a friendly "did you bring the ball chaser? We have 100 acre field set aside for you with 8 birds planted last night."

The question is... how impressed should i be with my dog or do all they all just do this naturally? Here is the report of events

Dog facts
6 years old, about 100 pounds but very athletic not overweight at all, never heard a gunshot, never smelled a pheasant or hunted anything. Has chased a few rabbits but that's it
I have trained in basic obedience. Come, Heel, Sit, Stay. When we play fetch i throw lacrosse ball about 125 yards and make him wait until i release him to retrieve. He will stop mid retrieve if i call him and he will change directions if i yell "up". He does not run up, he just goes in the opposite direction of what he was going.

Hunter facts
51 years old, never shot at anything except clay birds.

We get to our field and Chip hops out happy as heck. As we head into the field i tell him to find the "rabbit" as he knows that word from romping in the field near our home. He takes off running in a crossing pattern between me and my hunting partner about 30 yards away. Back and forth back and forth about 30 yards in front us. After about 20 minutes a bird flushes and my partner shoots it. Chip gets a good sniff on the bird and away we go again running back and forth.

It is very obvious when he finds a scent as he gets very focused and seems to run in a small zig zag area before stopping a few seconds and then either flushes the bird or chases him until i catch up and flush it.

On one occasion when he was very close to me he just froze like a pointer dog. No one foot in the air but nose down tail up. I tried to tell him to get moving but he remained locked up. Turns out there was a bird about 2 feet away from us. That was really cool.

In the end we shot 7 birds all but 1 found by Chip. He ran for 3 hours with 2 10 minute breaks for water.

My experienced hunting partner kept saying he absolutely blown away by Chip.
The manager from the club drove out and watched us for 20 minutes and later said he would swear Chip has been trained. Chip never even reacted to the gunshot noise... did not seem to bother him at all.

Chip loves to retrieve but he would not retrieve the birds when shot. He would go over to the fallen bird but not pick it up. I tried to put the bird in his mouth and he just dropped it like he did not like the taste.

So is this just normal lab behavior? Based on this report should i get Chip some training? I can say he still learns things very quickly but everything i have read seems to say 6 is too old to start.

He is my first dog and been a great family pet. I would hate to see anything change his temperament.

What do you think? Train him or leave him as is and just have fun with him.

His paper are excellent from a long line of accomplished field dogs including a national champion 2 generations back so i think he has good blood.

Thanks for listening and your input is appreciated.
 
Got yourself a huntin' dawg. Some dogs got all the instincts, some have some, some have none. Lucky!
 
First of all, congrats! Many are not so lucky.

By "get him some training", it sounds like you are talking about sending him to a professional. Assuming that your goals are just to have fun with your dog in the field, that is really not necessary.

Now, if you're talking about training him yourself, I think you'll find that the experience will be greatly rewarding for both yourself and Chip!

6 years is not too old to start.

There are lots of books and videos available on training dogs for upland hunting. It sounds like he's got great instincts and you're able to maintain control over him in the field, so a couple 30-minute training sessions each week should really allow him to flourish.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I would hate to see anything change his temperament." How would spending more time with your dog doing activities that are fun for both of you be anything but beneficial?
 
I agree with TOlzon. Your dog has natural instincts and 6 years old is not too old. You've obviously spent a lot of time with him and he is obedient. Obedience is the key for many aspects. I've hunted with too many guys and their dogs that don't mind and listen to the owner yelling all day long. I think with more exposure your dog will begin picking up your dead birds. The retrieving breeds have such an ingrained retrieving instinct. If not, some retrieve training will get the job done. I say keep hunting him and keep spending time in the field. Sounds like you've got a winner.
 
thanks for the input

I will get a book and do some reading. i spend time with Chip almost daily just throwing the ball and working on obedience so changing the program to one geared toward hunting will be a good change of pace. I am very glad to hear 6 is not too old. I just wish i had gotten on this a few years ago and a few seasons behind us. It is clear he had a great time.

I think we may go Duck hunting saturday but back for more pheasant Sunday afternoon.

First time eating Peasant as well. Pretty darn good table fare!
 
flyfishz said:
I will get a book and do some reading. i spend time with Chip almost daily just throwing the ball and working on obedience so changing the program to one geared toward hunting will be a good change of pace. I am very glad to hear 6 is not too old. I just wish i had gotten on this a few years ago and a few seasons behind us. It is clear he had a great time.

I think we may go Duck hunting saturday but back for more pheasant Sunday afternoon.

First time eating Peasant as well. Pretty darn good table fare!
Click to expand...

I think your dog needs minimal, if any, training. He'll basically train himself OTJ.
 
Will he fetch a dummy?

If so, tie some pheasant feathers to it. Start with a few and build up to a dead bird. Use a cap/blank gun to "shoot" it as you throw it out. Train him. You're farther ahead than most I've seen with fancy trained buhrd dogs. And, get him out on live birds as much as you can. You'll both love it.

Sounds like he did quite well for the first time out. Good luck.
 
Congratulations.

Good dog.

I always figured that the human works out procedural instructions with the dog, and the dog learns to hunt, mostly, by hunting.

Over the 6 years, you've already done the most of the procedural stuff. Nice work. All dogs should work as well, but not very many do. You did well.

On the retrieving, I've had the best luck by skinning a bird, and using it to put in the dog's mouth at home, command "Fetch," and reinserting it each and every time the dog drops it. Once it holds it, great praise and jubilation ensue, then command "heel," and walk slowly away, going back to put the bird in the dog's mouth, with great patience and understanding.

Your dog already wants to have fun with you, to please you. He'll catch on.

Short sessions, often repeated, replete with great praise and appropriate pride with take care of it. My dogs and I both endorse the lavish use of treats.

Current dog is a 5 y/o rescue; previous one was a 2.5 y/o rescue. You laid the basics for the hunting interaction long ago with the consistent obedience commands. Hunting polish is just a few steps away.

BTW, don't expect duck hunting to work as smoothly, unless you have been working at multiple (that is, more than one) directed retrieves.


Nicely done.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
training and field update

I ended up going duck hunting last weekend so Chip had to stay home as my hunting partner host has an great duck dog that is highly trained that filled out our blind. However, i stopped by bass pro-shops and bought a dokken duck training dummy. So last week was training week. I still have not bought a book but i am following a few simple tips that folks have given

1st i got rid of all the toys and balls. it is the duck dummy or nothing if he wants to play.

we worked a total of 8 sessions of between 5 minutes to 20 minutes each.

Chips initial response to the dummy was basically what the heck is this and where is my damn ball! 5 minute session

Once chip figured out this was the "New Game" we began to make progress. It started out no problem running to the dummy not real excited about picking it up. 5 minute session

By session 3 chip would pick up the dummy but not retrieve

Session 4 we broke through-- Chip seemed to realize if he did not bring the dummy back the game is over in 5 minutes or less... So he reluctantly retrieved the dummy from about 30 feet-- I think it helped that the "new Smell" was wearing off the dummy

Session 5 Wed. morning strong retrieves to 60 feet directly back and deposit at my feet and ready to go again as soon as i gave the fetch command

Session 6 Wed Night Very dark Blind retrieves-- Chip was given the lay down and stay command. I walked about 60 yards out on the golf course behind my house dropped the dummy and returned to chip. I positioned him below the line of site so he could not see where i went. 20 or so good retrieves in this fashion and then and 20 more thrown retrieves -- Looking good and having fun

Thursday morning-- 20 minutes thrown retrieves

Friday Morning 20 thrown retrieves

Saturday-- Hunt day!! Chip worked hard for about 2 hours before we got a bird. Very nice job of locating a bird down in a ditch. I was close by so when it flushed i had a clean shot at about 20 yards. Bird sailed about 20 yards. Chip located the downed bird and retrieved to my feet. He was very proud and got lots of praise

Chip was getting tired after 3 hours of hunting so we took a break and i gave him 6 large milk bones i bummed off another hunter. It occurred to me he might just need some fuel. 30 minutes rest and we were off again and going strong. Getting the bird really made Chip want to hunt so he was running a good crossing pattern of about 30 yards wide roughly 20 yards in front of me. he found another bird paused about 5 seconds and then flushed it. Missed shot... But i gave chip lots of encouragement for finding the bird.

then he got a little too jazzed up and was finding numerous scents that took him further out front. If he was just running the pattern hunting i had no issue keeping him close, but when he got a bird scent he moved too quickly and was flushing birds as much as 30 yards away. One flush flew back towards me and was taken with a swinging shot. the bird landed about 20 feet from me. Chip took about 3 minutes to find this bird. I think he may not have seen the flight direction when it flushed.

Things to work on--- keep him closer or i have to move faster

Bring food to the field-- seems like standard breakfast is not enough

This week we will learn water retrieves

Attached is photo of Chips first dead bird retrieve from about 40 yards across a 8 foot deep 20 foot wide ditch.

We are having a blast together!!
 
Thanks a ton!

I really appreciate the thoughtful tips and encouragement the board members are providing. Like all of you i absolutely love my dog. This whole hunting activity has been a great experience for both of us. I think we are going to the duck club wednesday afternoon just to see what happens. If nothing else i know chip will have a blast running and swimming in the water. my expectations are low as i am really just hoping he does not start dragging decoys out of the pond! Thanks again for the great tips and advice as this info has been the basis for many our training ideas.

One thing i really need help with--- chip wont jump up in the truck! He puts his front paws up and then looks at me as if to say " pick up my but and help me out"! it is kind of humiliating when the other dogs just seem to hop in no issue. He is big... close to 100 lbs... but it seems as though this should not be that hard

Any ideas?
 
I find using treats works great with any lab. I'm pretty sure labs' brains are either in or linked directly to their stomachs. My lab Daisy will not jump into the back of the truck anymore when we are leaving the field, but if there is a grouse or a pheasant in the back, up she goes.

I tolerate it because, well, she's old and she does a fantastic job otherwise.
 
I once had a dog like that. The worst thing I did was assist it into the back of the truck....very bad habit to get into and the dog had me trained to that pretty well.

Finally to fix the problem I would throw the dummy into the back of the truck, with the tail gate down of course.

Basically a retrieving exercise but using the truck instead of some obstacle for him to jump over.

After he understood how to jump into the truck, it was just a simple modification of the command to "Kennel UP" since he already understood that meant to get into his dog box.
 
I lift my dog into the back of the truck......after all that she does for me in the field, it's the least i could do. screw what my buddies think!!:)


yes she expects it and has me pretty well trained, but she also takes up wifeys half of the bed also!!!!
 
+1 :thumbsup:

Actually made the mistake of shaking her (the dog, not the wife) thinking she overslept for work. That wasn't the bad mistake, though. I thought it was funny and told the wife about the mix-up. She was not so amused by the case of mistaken identity.

Dog didn't mind...
 
Daisybuck said:
+1 :thumbsup:

Actually made the mistake of shaking her (the dog, not the wife) thinking she overslept for work. That wasn't the bad mistake, though. I thought it was funny and told the wife about the mix-up. She was not so amused by the case of mistaken identity.

Dog didn't mind...
Click to expand...

best way to see who loves you more...the wife or the dog, lock them both in the trunk of the car for about 10 minutes....open the trunk and see which one is happier to see you!!!!!:D:D
 
Show him a hamburger and then put it up there. :p
 
sounds like you're both having great time! Congrats on your new found fun! It just gets better from here. In regards to fuel, a few things I've read/watched/learned are about feeding a good full meal the night before so the dog has time to digest everything. I actually don't feed Fillmore too much in the morning, since she just seems to get mudbutt from it. But when she's done, I give her a bigger than normal our daily dose. You may also look into a higher fat/protein diet. Some other guys here can talk more about that, but it's basically more calories for the great activity your dog is putting out now.

all in all, congrats. Now instead of just ball throwing, you'll be finding excuses to get the dog out into the field. ;)
 
hamburger in the crate... and no extra food

OK... so a hamburger in the crate is a big breaking of the people food rule i have stuck to pretty well for the past 6 years... so it will be a meat only event... no bun.

But the extra food mid hunt seemed to make a big difference. does nobody feed their dog a snack mid hunt?

As for sleeping on the bed... yep all 100 pounds of chocolate lab sleep on wifes side. She thought it was cute idea when he was a puppy. I said "bad idea... you will regret this but he is not sleeping on my side. Every morning i hear... that "damn dog kept me up doing..." My answer... "i think it's cute"

Wednesday is all you can shoot Chukar hunt for $100 Going to try and make it out
 
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