Evolution?

[birddude]

I've wondered about this for a long time. I'm old enough to remember the tall tales from the 30's about the big bronze-colored bobwhites my grandpa and his brothers hunted. They almost always watched them land after the flush. They were half again the size of the birds we have now. When I was a kid, I remember the old timers talking about how they (whoever they were?) ruined the quail hunting by introducing those damned running Mexican quail. I sort of believed it for some time. Then came the blizzards of 78-79. Quail #s plummeted. In 79 while rabbit hunting in a foot of snow I saw a covey in a dozer pile. They never left it even while the dogs were running in and around it. That set my pea brain thinking. After the #s rebounded in the 80's I thought I noticed a difference and now 30 years latter there is no denying it in my mind. These birds have evolved! They haven't been the gentleman bob's here for a long time. But now it's plumb ridiculous! I haven't done any studies, but I estimate that we get around one third of the coveys pointed. And when you do, they often will not be found again that day. Hunting in the snow has proved it time and again. My buddy and I have seen 7 coveys in two afternoons. We shot two! The first day, every time we had dogs point and track then loose sent, we found fresh tracks. Managed to get one covey pointed, two more got up wild. Granted yesterday we had young dogs. But when you watch three out of four coveys get up 50 yard in front of the dogs it's not their fault. I think the fittest survived. The wildest ones, the ones who ran the farthest and flew the longest! But for whatever reason, my hat's off to the little bastards and I hope there's enough of them around to repopulate when the next depression comes! Until then, I'll chase and cuss until they are gone, or my legs give up! Cheers, you little bastards I'll see you tomorrow!!

 

[Miforester]

I've wondered about this for a long time. I'm old enough to remember the tall tales from the 30's about the big bronze-colored bobwhites my grandpa and his brothers hunted. They almost always watched them land after the flush. They were half again the size of the birds we have now. When I was a kid, I remember the old timers talking about how they (whoever they were?) ruined the quail hunting by introducing those damned running Mexican quail. I sort of believed it for some time. Then came the blizzards of 78-79. Quail #s plummeted. In 79 while rabbit hunting in a foot of snow I saw a covey in a dozer pile. They never left it even while the dogs were running in and around it. That set my pea brain thinking. After the #s rebounded in the 80's I thought I noticed a difference and now 30 years latter there is no denying it in my mind. These birds have evolved! They haven't been the gentleman bob's here for a long time. But now it's plumb ridiculous! I haven't done any studies, but I estimate that we get around one third of the coveys pointed. And when you do, they often will not be found again that day. Hunting in the snow has proved it time and again. My buddy and I have seen 7 coveys in two afternoons. We shot two! The first day, every time we had dogs point and track then loose sent, we found fresh tracks. Managed to get one covey pointed, two more got up wild. Granted yesterday we had young dogs. But when you watch three out of four coveys get up 50 yard in front of the dogs it's not their fault. I think the fittest survived. The wildest ones, the ones who ran the farthest and flew the longest! But for whatever reason, my hat's off to the little bastards and I hope there's enough of them around to repopulate when the next depression comes! Until then, I'll chase and cuss until they are gone, or my legs give up! Cheers, you little bastards I'll see you tomorrow!!

I believe all species will do what they need to survive and those who have the greatest survival skills pass those on thru their genes and by example during their life. As you know Max I think the later in the year the surviving coveys have grown wary of all potential threats and as soon as on is perceived they start moving just like pheasants will do. I have seen the same thing over the years in the grouse woods. It is very rare to have my dogs point a grouse and the grouse hold till i can flush, unless opening week. The dogs will point but the birds will walk away from the points, this is now happening more and more with woodcock too. Woodies used to be a great trainer for young dogs and still are but they too are walking away for points. I believe some of this is the species adapting to threat and some of the running genes are passed on. I also believe we have more training occurring on our native or local populations in the off season and by the time hunting season comes around they are very well conditioned to the threat of dogs. As many states have there is a quiet time during nesting season unless you are a woodcock bander then you can run your dogs all year long. I know trainers here in Michigan that take their client dogs to the prairies states in the summer time for training so I'm sure the is happening in the pheasant states as well. When the woodcock are migrating back north our woods are almost as busy with bird dogs as the hunting season. Bottom line is just as we change to increase our success in bagging birds they are doing the same to survive and that is what keeps use going!

 

[Munster927]

Animals definitely evolve to survive. And I'd bet it can be done in a relatively small area too. As an example, at my land in northern MN we used to see lots of ruffed grouse years ago that, when flushed, would fly up into trees. Those birds normally got shot. Now whenever I flush a grouse, they fly to the next county. I couldn't tell you the last grouse I flushed that jumped into a tree to avoid me and the dogs.

We've just assumed the smart ones that didn't go into trees have lived and passed that down, the ones who did are gone.

 

[Plannerman]

Sounds like if we're going to have a chance in the future, we better start shooting the smart ones!!

 

[Quailnerd]

I've wondered about this for a long time. I'm old enough to remember the tall tales from the 30's about the big bronze-colored bobwhites my grandpa and his brothers hunted. They almost always watched them land after the flush. They were half again the size of the birds we have now. When I was a kid, I remember the old timers talking about how they (whoever they were?) ruined the quail hunting by introducing those damned running Mexican quail. I sort of believed it for some time. Then came the blizzards of 78-79. Quail #s plummeted. In 79 while rabbit hunting in a foot of snow I saw a covey in a dozer pile. They never left it even while the dogs were running in and around it. That set my pea brain thinking. After the #s rebounded in the 80's I thought I noticed a difference and now 30 years latter there is no denying it in my mind. These birds have evolved! They haven't been the gentleman bob's here for a long time. But now it's plumb ridiculous! I haven't done any studies, but I estimate that we get around one third of the coveys pointed. And when you do, they often will not be found again that day. Hunting in the snow has proved it time and again. My buddy and I have seen 7 coveys in two afternoons. We shot two! The first day, every time we had dogs point and track then loose sent, we found fresh tracks. Managed to get one covey pointed, two more got up wild. Granted yesterday we had young dogs. But when you watch three out of four coveys get up 50 yard in front of the dogs it's not their fault. I think the fittest survived. The wildest ones, the ones who ran the farthest and flew the longest! But for whatever reason, my hat's off to the little bastards and I hope there's enough of them around to repopulate when the next depression comes! Until then, I'll chase and cuss until they are gone, or my legs give up! Cheers, you little bastards I'll see you tomorrow!!

If they would just learn to roost off the ground half their enemies would be out of reach