Encounter with a wildlife officer
- Thread starter KsHusker
- Start date
I dont know how old you are but this wasnt legal until non resident deer hunting was allowed or shortly thereafter. Im going to shoot from the hip and say 1996 or so.
T-tags as they became known were the bane of most resident deer hunters existence. The landowners were the only ones who profited/f'd up the deer herd when they did this. When T-tags were banned, the tide just switched to leasing. However, with everyone horn hunting and the state taking a backseat to actual deer management, our trophy quality has went downhill at least IMHO. Deer #s are up but the # of S Texas/German Shepherd sized deer with basket racks and does is higher imo. Thats what happens when you screw up the age class through poor management/couple that with an out of whack doe/buck ratio.
I'll get off of my soapbox. But anyways, T-tags are what you are referring to and it was only around for a short time and only benefited large landowners and outfitters who exploited a loop hole. They didnt come about until out of state deer hunting was allowed. No out of state deer hunters allowed, no market for that stuff.
If our state continues its tide/path I'll have zero interest in deer hunting here except for meat. If I want a trophy I'll go somewhere else.
BritChaser
Well-known member
About as nice an encounter as you could ask for. The KHP are a very professional group.
First time I hunted in Kansas was in the early 70s when I got out of the army been hunting there most years ever since, lots of things have changed over the years including me:laugh:
Never tried to deer hunt there but I have seen a lot of nice ones over the years pheasant hunting
brettberry
New member
Out of State Hunters To Clarify
First, let's get this straight, when I said out of state hunters are the main issue in Kansas, I was specifically referring to Deer Hunters. Categorically they ARE the issue. They are the big money the Dept. of Wildlife goes after; they ARE categorically behind many/most of the game law violations. I've witnessed it with my own eyes and heard the stories from my friends who own the land, etc.
Now, I have personally invited MANY pheasant hunters to hunt with me in Kansas. Pheasant hunters are GREAT and I've seen very few issues. I wish more hunters would come hunt when the hunting's good. I think the WIHA offers great opportunities for this.
I hope this clarifies things on my statements about out-of-state hunters.
First, let's get this straight, when I said out of state hunters are the main issue in Kansas, I was specifically referring to Deer Hunters. Categorically they ARE the issue. They are the big money the Dept. of Wildlife goes after; they ARE categorically behind many/most of the game law violations. I've witnessed it with my own eyes and heard the stories from my friends who own the land, etc.
Now, I have personally invited MANY pheasant hunters to hunt with me in Kansas. Pheasant hunters are GREAT and I've seen very few issues. I wish more hunters would come hunt when the hunting's good. I think the WIHA offers great opportunities for this.
I hope this clarifies things on my statements about out-of-state hunters.
brettberry
New member
This from the Wichita Eagle Beacon, right on cue:
12/28/2013 Wichita Eagle Beacon -- if you actually read what they did, you'd be pissed...
After several years in federal courts, Texas brothers James and Marlin Butler were sentenced in October to 10 and eight months in jail for poaching violations. The Butlers ran Camp Lone Star in Comanche County, an outfitting business. About 28 of their clients had been sentenced for poaching while at the camp in previous years. Some federal authorities said it may have been the largest trophy deer poaching case in the nation?s history.
Celebrity hunter Spook Spann, of Tennessee, was ordered in July to spend 30 days in jail after violating his probation that came from a 2007 incident where he illegally tagged a huge non-typical buck he shot in Kansas. Spann was originally sentenced in late 2012, and got in trouble when participated in hunts in Tennessee last spring. Originally banned from hunting anywhere in the U.S. for six months and a year in Kansas, at his re-sentencing Spann was barred from hunting anywhere in the world for one year.
WAKE THE FREAK UP! TIGHTEN REGULATIONS ON OUT OF STATE DEER HUNTERS!
12/28/2013 Wichita Eagle Beacon -- if you actually read what they did, you'd be pissed...
After several years in federal courts, Texas brothers James and Marlin Butler were sentenced in October to 10 and eight months in jail for poaching violations. The Butlers ran Camp Lone Star in Comanche County, an outfitting business. About 28 of their clients had been sentenced for poaching while at the camp in previous years. Some federal authorities said it may have been the largest trophy deer poaching case in the nation?s history.
Celebrity hunter Spook Spann, of Tennessee, was ordered in July to spend 30 days in jail after violating his probation that came from a 2007 incident where he illegally tagged a huge non-typical buck he shot in Kansas. Spann was originally sentenced in late 2012, and got in trouble when participated in hunts in Tennessee last spring. Originally banned from hunting anywhere in the U.S. for six months and a year in Kansas, at his re-sentencing Spann was barred from hunting anywhere in the world for one year.
WAKE THE FREAK UP! TIGHTEN REGULATIONS ON OUT OF STATE DEER HUNTERS!
mustistuff
Banned
if you think in state hunter's walk on water, you are out of you freakin mind. i think they got off light and should have been banned for life. being from out of state doesn't make you a crook, smarten up
cheers
brettberry
New member
Dude,
I am aware of criminal local poachers being an issue as well, but read the headlines...
"Television shows, magazine articles and word of mouth have focused attention on the state and turned it into a prime destination for hunters. But law enforcement officials are concerned that the illegal element also is flocking to the state." KC Star
"“They left no stone unturned when it came to violating deer hunting regs,” Brooks said. “They had people hunting without permits, exceeding bag limits, hunting the wrong units, shooting deer with illegal weapons for the season, they trespassed, used spotlights, shot deer from roads, just cut the heads off and left the meat to rot. I don’t know what (illegal activity) they didn’t do.” Wichita Eagle
From this story in the Sacramento Bee:
"A major investigation into illegal deer hunting in Kansas has snared three more out-of-state hunters."
"OBERLIN, Kansas -- Five Wisconsin men have been charged in Oberlin, Kansas, with poaching trophy mule deer; the evidence was 16 dead deer loaded on a Kansas game warden's trailer and parked Wednesday morning outside the Decatur County Courthouse in Oberlin." McCook Gazette
"Standing before the mounted heads and antlers of about 100 deer illegally killed in Kansas, game warden John Brooks described the poaching case involving James Butler Jr. as "by far the most egregious thing I've encountered or heard of."
To: The House Standing Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources.
"Poachers shot 119 trophy deer illegally over 60 hunters involved from several states.
They used airplanes to transport the poachers to Kansas. They used military type equipment
such as night vision ($10,000 scopes) in order to profit from poaching.
Guy, we didn't have this kind of crap before the state loosened up out of state regulations.
Maybe you should smarten up yourself.
I am aware of criminal local poachers being an issue as well, but read the headlines...
"Television shows, magazine articles and word of mouth have focused attention on the state and turned it into a prime destination for hunters. But law enforcement officials are concerned that the illegal element also is flocking to the state." KC Star
"“They left no stone unturned when it came to violating deer hunting regs,” Brooks said. “They had people hunting without permits, exceeding bag limits, hunting the wrong units, shooting deer with illegal weapons for the season, they trespassed, used spotlights, shot deer from roads, just cut the heads off and left the meat to rot. I don’t know what (illegal activity) they didn’t do.” Wichita Eagle
From this story in the Sacramento Bee:
"A major investigation into illegal deer hunting in Kansas has snared three more out-of-state hunters."
"OBERLIN, Kansas -- Five Wisconsin men have been charged in Oberlin, Kansas, with poaching trophy mule deer; the evidence was 16 dead deer loaded on a Kansas game warden's trailer and parked Wednesday morning outside the Decatur County Courthouse in Oberlin." McCook Gazette
"Standing before the mounted heads and antlers of about 100 deer illegally killed in Kansas, game warden John Brooks described the poaching case involving James Butler Jr. as "by far the most egregious thing I've encountered or heard of."
To: The House Standing Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources.
"Poachers shot 119 trophy deer illegally over 60 hunters involved from several states.
They used airplanes to transport the poachers to Kansas. They used military type equipment
such as night vision ($10,000 scopes) in order to profit from poaching.
Guy, we didn't have this kind of crap before the state loosened up out of state regulations.
Maybe you should smarten up yourself.
Ive often heard of that in the eastern part of the state. I think one could use the Chicken vs the egg argument....not using any excuses, but most everything is leased in Eastern KS where you live/down to OK and up to the KC area. (Correct me if Im wrong)............... -- Nowhere to deer hunt I believe entices people who live there to do the poaching. Not making an excuse, but I think thats part of the problem. Give people some access and maybe some of it will go away. Just a hypothesis of mine.
I wouldnt in a million years think of trying to deer hunt E of wichita or anywhere in a corridor up to KC or topeka. I wouldnt stand a chance in hell at getting any good deer hunting ground to go on unless I stopped at my bank and pulled out a fat stack of Benjamins or paid some ding dong outfitter.
Will quit deer hunting when I have to pay or will travel or move out of state.
But I agree - I think the most heinous deer hunting violators are from out of state. If Michael Pearce would do his job hed be writing an article about another poaching ring I heard through the grapevine was busted in Stafford County. The violators I believe hail from KC which just as well be out of state. I dont know how much longer the Wildlife and parks is going to sit on this before they put out a press release.
Deer poaching is a nationwide problem horn fever has made fools of many otherwise sane folks IMO.
Get on a deer forum like archery talk and read some of the crazy stuff that goes on, its definitely not limited to Kansas.
I am an avid deer hunter (bow only longbow) but I have run into some real characters deer hunting over the years. Quit gun hunting because of some of the run ins I had on public land in Wisconsin.
My best friend is a surveyor in Wi and gets many months of business over deer hunters squabbling about property lines, its crazy.
Get on a deer forum like archery talk and read some of the crazy stuff that goes on, its definitely not limited to Kansas.
I am an avid deer hunter (bow only longbow) but I have run into some real characters deer hunting over the years. Quit gun hunting because of some of the run ins I had on public land in Wisconsin.
My best friend is a surveyor in Wi and gets many months of business over deer hunters squabbling about property lines, its crazy.
mustistuff
Banned
my last question. the last time you crossed a state line did you automatically become a crook, didn't know state lines did that to people!!
cheers
fsentkilr
Active member
I can honestly say I don't know of any locals around here that don't have access to private ground to hunt. Everybody has relation or a friend of a friend who knows somebody with land. We own 7000 acres and none of it is leased. My guess is less that 10 percent of it in Anderson County is leased. I let neighbors hunt when they ask. There actually isn't that much ground leased right around here.
Some of the locals around here seem to think that since they are local they can get away with anything, spotlighting, shooting bucks with .22's and putting bow tags on them ect. Its the same way with my farm in Finney county. I had a local tell me last weekend that most of the big muleys shot in the area are spotlighted, and this was a guy that would know.
Its easier for locals to get away with stuff like this because they feel more comfortable being from the area. They know the roads the people ect. It would be interesting to know for sure, but I would bet the percentage of residents breaking game laws are higher than the same percentage for nonresidents. Even in some of the high profile cases where nonresidents were arrested, it was a local outfitter or local person that facilitated the poaching.
Some of the locals around here seem to think that since they are local they can get away with anything, spotlighting, shooting bucks with .22's and putting bow tags on them ect. Its the same way with my farm in Finney county. I had a local tell me last weekend that most of the big muleys shot in the area are spotlighted, and this was a guy that would know.
Its easier for locals to get away with stuff like this because they feel more comfortable being from the area. They know the roads the people ect. It would be interesting to know for sure, but I would bet the percentage of residents breaking game laws are higher than the same percentage for nonresidents. Even in some of the high profile cases where nonresidents were arrested, it was a local outfitter or local person that facilitated the poaching.
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Fsentkiler thank you for beating me to reply. I have hunted Anderson county my whole life and never saw any leased land other than oil leases. Hell when I get back that way I run my dogs one section west of your house. The only problem we ever had was the landowner from kc who buys by the acre and sells by the foot.
fsentkilr
Active member
Yeah I have seen you over there. Steve's ground gets hunted more than WIHA. There are hunters there every weekend. The quail all move east of the road.........
mustistuff
Banned
out of stater
a couple of days ago i had a long talk with my very own farmer brown, and in part about out of state hunters and how low life they are. i quoted some of the postings here. his view and as mine, was he has had pretty good luck with them and if you wanted a group of bad guy's on your ranch or farm, all you had to do is go to the nearest town and you could find enough of them to keep at least the western half of kansas happy or busy. as far as all this trash everybody keeps finding a bs'ing about picking so much stuff up they don't have time to hunt, he say's the locals are the one's that are doing the most of that. he, as well as me and a few or you other's think that some of you are blowing smoke and your postings are doing more harm than good, kinda like the guy that wounds a bird or animal and talks about it, who do you think is hearing that stuff anyway?????
cheers
a couple of days ago i had a long talk with my very own farmer brown, and in part about out of state hunters and how low life they are. i quoted some of the postings here. his view and as mine, was he has had pretty good luck with them and if you wanted a group of bad guy's on your ranch or farm, all you had to do is go to the nearest town and you could find enough of them to keep at least the western half of kansas happy or busy. as far as all this trash everybody keeps finding a bs'ing about picking so much stuff up they don't have time to hunt, he say's the locals are the one's that are doing the most of that. he, as well as me and a few or you other's think that some of you are blowing smoke and your postings are doing more harm than good, kinda like the guy that wounds a bird or animal and talks about it, who do you think is hearing that stuff anyway?????
cheers
Myself and Im sure others stand by the sentiment Ive referenced regarding out of state deer hunters.
Out of state bird hunters and archery are a different breed. I hate to paint with a broad brush on the rifle guys as I like to rifle hunt but its sad but true. A lot of bad apples in this crowd.
mustistuff
Banned
the problem i'm having is not that this stuff goes on but it seems that it is just out of stater's and the locals are getting off scot free. i just can't swallow that. besides, for an out of stater to come in and poach, most certainly he needs a local contact i would think, esp. if they are shooting big stuff and in numbers.
cheers