Dogtra 280ncp platinum report day one.

M

Mordis

New member
Edit to add, My dog is a Beagle.

Well, I just got my dogtra 280ncp a few days ago and a little while ago i got it off thee charger and put it on. I went through the adjustment range on nick trying to find the minimum stim lvl to use on him. I had gotten to lvl 15 when i remembered that a while ago a trainer demoing this exact same collar on newt had him responding on lvl 15. Im not sure what changed from then to now but he wasnt showing any signs of being impacted by the stim at lvl 15. So i kept adjusting till i got to lvl 30. At this point i nearly missed his clues becuase they were incredably subtle. When he got a stim he would kinda turn his head abit and look around. At first i thought it was just him being out side and distracted so i nicked again at 30 and saw him repeat the head turn and look.

Now for today we did only 15 minutes of training to day so as not to over do it with im, seeing as this is both our first times with this collar. Our first thing we did on the 5' leash was heel. I kept him at my side and said heel and started walking. Every time he would start to wander off/id get tension on the lead i would give a nick and say heel at the same time. If the single nick didnt work i would say heel while pushing the constant button till he complied.

After a few minutes of this i didnt have to use the constant again. I only had to nick when he wandered and he came right back. After some more minutes had past he was heeling what i considered pretty good. I hadnt needed to nick very often at all, only occassionaly as he walked along with me. On top of the ecollar for punishment, i was giving him a occasional treat during the stints of perfect healing performance. I feel that using the collar and the treats together was the best thing for this dog. I think that as the weeks of training go by his heeling(and other command) will be far better then current.

Twords the end of training i noticed that he was completely focused on where i was and what i wanted him to do next. While out side i decided to try something else. I had him sit(which he complied with quickly with no need to stim) i then gave him a treat. I then moved on to the stay command, with more treats and no stim(wasnt needed oddly:confused:). I would have him sit and then say stay while putting hand up in what looks like a Police mans halt command. Then I would step back and wait a few seconds and then give him a treat and praise him for staying.
After a couple of times of this i noticed that he was doing it perfectly each time so i took what probably was a foolish risk. I put him into sit and then gave the stay command. I then dropped the leash and backed away a few steps. He never moved, in fact his eyes never left me.

Noticing that this had worked I repeated it a few times, each time with the same result. So to up the ante a bit I then added a third command to the sit/stay routine. I put him in sit then gave him the stay command. I waited to see if he was compling with the sit stay command when he was i added the next command. I then dropped the leash and backed away about 10'-12' and then said HERE and held a treat near my side. At this point he got up and slowly walked towards me and walked to my side and ate the treat. I was able to repeat this 4 more times, twice out side and twice inside the house.

So far i think that i need to keep narrowing down the adjustment becuase i think that i may be to high yet. Secondly maybe the experianced trainers here can help me with my dogs attitude during this. He didnt seem happy, or excited he seemed sad and lethargic. When i did the sit stay and come routine he didnt come to me at a normal walking speed. He walked twords me very slowly. Also during the whole training time his tail was tucked. Could this all be becuase i maybe using the wrong stim lvl? Should i increase my vocal excitement, i was in a serious voice out side.

Id love some advice from you guys as to what i should do next. I know i need to keep focused on the basics for now. But what do you guys think i should start working on later on when he has more experiance with the basic commands? I know i need to start adding in other commands but im not sure which ones and when. I know that work on downn will be tough seeing as he is a small dog. I also need to work on the place command and kennel command both of which will come in very handy for a variety of situations.

So what are your thoughts comments suggestions and critiques? I look forward to them and any advice you have. I have high hopes for this dog, and woud love for him to be rabbit ready by next years season. Thanks for reading my wall of text.

Mordis
 
In my opinion, for the type of training (Heel, Sit, Stay) you are doing you should not be using an e-collar. You need to teach the dog those things through repetition. Once the dog has learned the commands then you can enforce the command with the e-collar when he doesn't comply. In other words the e-collar isn't a tool to use to teach the dog, it's to be used to enforce those things the dog has already been taught.

Now, the amount of situlation. If the dog is turning his/her head when you nick him and is not vocalizing that is the proper amount of situmlation. You know when you have the proper amount of situlation when the dog reacts like a fly was buzzing around his head.

Hope this helps.
 
Im kinda at a loss about teaching him heal sit stay with out the collar. How do you get a beagle to do it with out the collar?? For heal i have been using leash corrections, but i see those as the same thing as using the collar. I guess im at a loss as to how to teach him heal with out corrections or to here with out shock or leash correction? Hes not a navhda breed nor a lab. He is a beagle they have the attention span of gold fish.

I sure he knows the commands, i spent a good amount of time trying to get him to learn them with the cookie cookie method to little avail. He knows them, but only does them when he feels like it.

Any ideas about the lethargic movements and depressed attitude during training? If i call him he walks twords me real slow.
 
How old is your dog?

If the dog's attention span is short you must keep the training sesstion short. I've never been a big fan of, nor have I ever used, the "trat method" for training. A treat as a reward at the end of the session is okay but not every time he does something correct.

As far as the slow movement and depressed attitude I think that dogs some times think of training as punishment. Guess that's why it's important to keep the sessions fun and not get on him to bad when he does make a mistake. Was he this way before you started using the e-collar? If not, I forget the e-collar for awhile.

If there are any dog obedience classes in your area I would highly encourage you to take the dog to them. I did this with my first dog in 1974 and it was the best thing I ever did. Not because it taught the dog what to do, but becuase it taught ME!
 
Mordis said:
Edit to add, My dog is a Beagle.

Well, I just got my dogtra 280ncp a few days ago and a little while ago i got it off thee charger and put it on. I went through the adjustment range on nick trying to find the minimum stim lvl to use on him. I had gotten to lvl 15 when i remembered that a while ago a trainer demoing this exact same collar on newt had him responding on lvl 15. Im not sure what changed from then to now but he wasnt showing any signs of being impacted by the stim at lvl 15. So i kept adjusting till i got to lvl 30. At this point i nearly missed his clues becuase they were incredably subtle. When he got a stim he would kinda turn his head abit and look around. At first i thought it was just him being out side and distracted so i nicked again at 30 and saw him repeat the head turn and look.

Now for today we did only 15 minutes of training to day so as not to over do it with im, seeing as this is both our first times with this collar. Our first thing we did on the 5' leash was heel. I kept him at my side and said heel and started walking. Every time he would start to wander off/id get tension on the lead i would give a nick and say heel at the same time. If the single nick didnt work i would say heel while pushing the constant button till he complied.

After a few minutes of this i didnt have to use the constant again. I only had to nick when he wandered and he came right back. After some more minutes had past he was heeling what i considered pretty good. I hadnt needed to nick very often at all, only occassionaly as he walked along with me. On top of the ecollar for punishment, i was giving him a occasional treat during the stints of perfect healing performance. I feel that using the collar and the treats together was the best thing for this dog. I think that as the weeks of training go by his heeling(and other command) will be far better then current.

Twords the end of training i noticed that he was completely focused on where i was and what i wanted him to do next. While out side i decided to try something else. I had him sit(which he complied with quickly with no need to stim) i then gave him a treat. I then moved on to the stay command, with more treats and no stim(wasnt needed oddly:confused:). I would have him sit and then say stay while putting hand up in what looks like a Police mans halt command. Then I would step back and wait a few seconds and then give him a treat and praise him for staying.
After a couple of times of this i noticed that he was doing it perfectly each time so i took what probably was a foolish risk. I put him into sit and then gave the stay command. I then dropped the leash and backed away a few steps. He never moved, in fact his eyes never left me.

Noticing that this had worked I repeated it a few times, each time with the same result. So to up the ante a bit I then added a third command to the sit/stay routine. I put him in sit then gave him the stay command. I waited to see if he was compling with the sit stay command when he was i added the next command. I then dropped the leash and backed away about 10'-12' and then said HERE and held a treat near my side. At this point he got up and slowly walked towards me and walked to my side and ate the treat. I was able to repeat this 4 more times, twice out side and twice inside the house.

So far i think that i need to keep narrowing down the adjustment becuase i think that i may be to high yet. Secondly maybe the experianced trainers here can help me with my dogs attitude during this. He didnt seem happy, or excited he seemed sad and lethargic. When i did the sit stay and come routine he didnt come to me at a normal walking speed. He walked twords me very slowly. Also during the whole training time his tail was tucked. Could this all be becuase i maybe using the wrong stim lvl? Should i increase my vocal excitement, i was in a serious voice out side.

Id love some advice from you guys as to what i should do next. I know i need to keep focused on the basics for now. But what do you guys think i should start working on later on when he has more experiance with the basic commands? I know i need to start adding in other commands but im not sure which ones and when. I know that work on downn will be tough seeing as he is a small dog. I also need to work on the place command and kennel command both of which will come in very handy for a variety of situations.

So what are your thoughts comments suggestions and critiques? I look forward to them and any advice you have. I have high hopes for this dog, and woud love for him to be rabbit ready by next years season. Thanks for reading my wall of text.

Mordis
Click to expand...

Are you going to rabbit hunt this BEAGLE??
 
He is three years old. I have only had him for a year and a half. His previous owner had a ecollar on him for rabbit hunting. I have been trying unscussfully for that time frame to get him to even have any semblence of reliability with the basic obediance commands.

There is a lady here who runs the flying color canine academy, which i intend to take him 2 once she gets back from vacation. She trains all dogs from the start with the dogtra 280ncp, which i own. She costs a fair bit of money to train with her but her dogs are amazing.

Im prolly gonna stop with the stims untill i get started in her class and work with her one on one. Im gonna leave collar on him so he gets used to it. Is there any way i can work on sit stay and come and improve his heel with out the stim. It seems that he expects the stim and im afraid any progression i have made will go away when i stop using it.
 
Bob id love to, but he is proving to be very hard to train. Which is why i bought this collar lol. Id love to rabbit hunt him next year.
 
I wonder how all this would have turned out if i had gotten as a young pup instead of as a adult.... To late now, my kids love em, and i need to get this obediance thing down. He is of little use as a hunter if i cant get him to atleast come back.
 
Heel: Run a leash thru a piece of conduit . . . gives you a handle with which to position the dog EXACTLY where you want him/her. "Jerking" on a leash can hurt the dog (read: excessive pressure to the eyes.).

Sit: No e-collar needed, just a bit of patience. Put pup on a leash (so you have control), tap his/her butt & repeat as necesary until you get the desired results. Proceed at the dog's pace, not at the pace you desire.

Stay: Same game. Start short with the leash, then extend the distance. If the pup breaks, immediately command "Come!" Take advantage of what's happening. Then return to "Stay."

Training a pup takes time . . . it doesn't happen immediately. The best discipline (once you've rolled the pup on its back & have established WHO the Alpha really is) is ignoring the dog . . . turn your back, refuse to acknowledge the pup's advances. I've put pups under a weighted laundry basket & let them watch me play with other dogs, do yardwork, etc., all the while ignoring the little rascal.

Keep training sessions short when the dogs are young & ALWAYS end the session on a positive note. This approach worked for my Dad for all the years that I was blessed to know him & has continued to work for me over my 62/almost 63 years. I use an e-collar SOLEY to know I can stop the pooch with a vibrate if the dog is heading toward danger (ie., roads, railroads, call-back in a high wind, etc.). A dog's greatest desire is to please you . . . make the most of that characteristic. If you've raised/are raising children, you can train a dog . . . the only difference is that once learned, a dog ALWAYS minds/remembers. Do it right, and you will have a fine companion and one who will ALWAYS forgive your mistakes/transgressions. I ain't been bitten for missing over my entire life, and Lord knows that I deserved that . . . best of luck. Works for me.

Jim
 
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Im confidant that i have established im the domanint one. He does the pack social cleaning routine on me. Im gonna try your recoomendations, but about the heel thing, do i just say heel while he is on the conduit, and reward with a treat or just say heel occasionaly till he gets it.
 
beaglebob1 said:
Are you going to rabbit hunt this BEAGLE??
Click to expand...

If you are you are going to ruin him is short time. The dog should be running rabbits long before collar training. He will never leave your side at this rate. He should have some fun yard work like DOWN, HERE and his NAME and put into a running training pen with cover and tons of rabbits. And this should be done at around 4-6 months old.Then ease him in with a slow bitch that runs steady, remember slow at this point is key.
Beagles should not be hit with collar unless its running off game, mainly deer.
And make darn sure that is what its running before you hit it with juice.
If they are hard headed the beeper mode is usually enought to get there attention and have them head the right direction:thumbsup:
 
Mordis said:
Im confidant that i have established im the domanint one. He does the pack social cleaning routine on me. Im gonna try your recoomendations, but about the heel thing, do i just say heel while he is on the conduit, and reward with a treat or just say heel occasionaly till he gets it.
Click to expand...

I see he is an older dog. If he was hard core rabbit dog it will be a trick to turn him into a well mannered pet. You are going to have to break his will and build him back up. It will be ugly.:(
 
Mordis said:
Im confidant that i have established im the domanint one. He does the pack social cleaning routine on me. Im gonna try your recoomendations, but about the heel thing, do i just say heel while he is on the conduit, and reward with a treat or just say heel occasionaly till he gets it.
Click to expand...

if he was hunted try DOWN comand.
 
Aye bob, i bough him at 1.5 years old. His previous owner did all those thing you just suggested. I even saw him run newt in the training pen. He was hunted one season before i got him. I know his previous owner used a collar on him, i just dont know which one.

Oddly right now, its collar on= obediant beagle. Collar off = hyper active holy terror.
 
Not occasionally; command until the pup responds accordingly & without hesitation. Just command "Heel." And make sure it's a command, not a request. Commands must be forceful . . . all too many people "ask" their pup to do something. You're the boss; command like "The Boss."
 
Mordis said:
Aye bob, i bough him at 1.5 years old. His previous owner did all those thing you just suggested. I even saw him run newt in the training pen. He was hunted one season before i got him. I know his previous owner used a collar on him, i just dont know which one.

Oddly right now, its collar on= obediant beagle. Collar off = hyper active holy terror.
Click to expand...

If you want to hunt him in the future he may be to broke mentally to leave your side. Try dummy collar or the bark collar.Not going to hunt him them break him down. I have been raising hunting and field trail dogs 35 years and we like them with that holy terror thing:);):cheers:
Been only doing bird dogs several years. Much much different styles of training.:thumbsup:
 
i bough him at 1.5 years old.
Click to expand...

A pooch is NEVER too old to learn. I inherited a 5-year-old Jack Russell who is now the model of proper etiquette . . . she sits, stays, comes, knows numerous tricks, & is a retrieving fool. Time, training, patience, and building on the dog's inherent characteristics is the key. I didn't use a collar . . . I built on Sadie's desire to please me . . . that approach results in a dog that responds to you, not to an electronic contraption/obvious weight around their neck. There ain't no "shortcuts" to training a dog, elsewise our ancestors would have been screwed . . .
 
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Bob, whats odd is, this sudden change in behavior happend immediately when i first put it on. With out it, i dont exist in his world. Up to this point be for the collar i did all training on leash. We have spent along time just trying to get heel. Id love to be able to give him a command like "find the bunny" or just "bunny" and have him turn on.

Im gonna keep working with out the stim, but with the collar on. Im hoping i didnt just screw this dog royaly. I cant wait to get started with the professionall trainer, maybe she can help me before i screw him up any more then i already have.
 
Dogs get collar wise in a heartbeat. He knows whats up. try the dummy collar.
 
Im still trying to understand the dummy collar thing. What does using it accomplish? Trick him into thinking he has a real collar on?
 
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