copper bullets

Toad

Toad

Active member
Looking for suggestions on a quality nontoxic bullet for .243.

Last year my daughter shot a deer with her youth model .243. It was a perfect shot to the vitals, not through a leg bone or anything... When I went to process the deer I found that the bullet had practically exploded inside the deer. There were tiny flecks of lead all over the place, especially in the opposite front leg. Almost looked like little flecks of pepper in places... It was quite a process digging out all the lead, and I still wasn't especially confident about that opposite leg.

The bullet we used last year was copper jacketed lead, and was supposed to hold together and just mushroom out, but obviously it didn't hold together. I was told by a guy at work that the small calibers do that sometimes.

Anyway, if anybody has experience with any of the nontoxic bullets, I would appreciate your advice. My girls are crazy for venison, and I would feel better knowing the meat was lead-free.
 
Toad, I have been using Barnes Tripple shock and tipped Tripple shocks for a very long time now. Velocity has a lot to do with what I call frangible bullets and how they perform. Too fast and they explode on impact. So if you ever use ballistic tip or other bullets that are not bonded, you want to slow your velocities down. Now, with Barnes you have controlled expansion. You will most likely shoot through a deer depending on size. All my animals shot with the Barnes either fell straight down or were within 30 yds. They shoot very well out of all my guns. I reload for several people that use 129gr TTSX in their .270's and they have taken deer and elk with that load. There are more copper bullets coming out from other companies. I think Hornady has the SST. Accubonds are a bonded bullet, but I have seen them break apart at high speeds or when hitting bone.
 
Bleu is spot on. 2nd for the barnes if you want copper. For big game I like what is called a bonded bullet. I am a huge nosler fan. You deal you had sounds like a v-max or ballistic tip. They for the most part are designed to do that. Why they are great varmint bullets. You want them to explode in a yote or fox say, so you don't have exit holes that are huge. They both are copper jackets, but a "bonded" bullet is designed to hold together through the bonding process. And keeps weight retention for deep penetration and mushroom effect. I would go with Nosler partitions or accubonds myself. But if your set on copper solid, then barnes is a good choice.:thumbsup:
 
I shoot Barnes in my muzzleloader. They have performed extremely well on the deer I have taken with them. They retain their weight really well. I will continue using them.
 
I think I would try the GMX's which is the hornady? I've heard that TSX doesn't like a dirty bore or mixed bore, gilded metal on a regular jacketed bullet. So if you mix practice lead core with the GMX in theory you would have as good of accuracy with less cleaning. If that makes any sense. Barnes solid copper, jacketed and gmx..gilded.


All of that being said last year I shot that huge deer of mine ;) with a TTSX.
 
I don't know much about bullets, so it is possible I had the wrong kind. Federal Power-Shok was the brand. The description says it is supposed to have good weight retention and is designed for "deer size game". But it's on the low side, price wise, so maybe it's just a lower quality product.

The yardage could have been part of the problem too. With her being new to hunting, we set up in our buddy stand that I bow hunt from. Nice thing about that stand is that there is a shooting rail and 50 yards is about the longest shot you would get from there. It was a 40-45 yard shot she took that deer with last year.

Maybe it was a combo of cheap bullet and close range that caused the bullet to blow up like that.

Anyway, I imagine we will hunt the same stand again this year, so pinpoint accuracy isn't much of a concern. I just want to make sure she is using a sturdy bullet that will reliably kill the deer and not leave a cloud of lead in the meat.
 
Looks like Cabelas has the TTSX in stock. I will spend some points and order a box for each of us for next season.

Thanks so much for your help Bleu and others! There are getting to be so many choices, I am glad to hear that several of you have first-hand experience with one of them and to hear that it is working for you. That will give me a lot more confidence next season when she is putting the crosshairs on her next deer!
 
Toad, yes power shok is a cheap deer round. It is a "soft point" bullet. You will be fine to just go with the fed premium "fusion" loads. They are a "bonded" bullet that holds together. Bonding has the copper molecules attached right to the lead core essentially kind of making them one. Very cool and very deadly. Fusion would be my first choice in over the counter deer loads. I load the same bullet style in 64 grain. Nosler bonded performance, and they are sweet. Winchester also has a factory round with that bonded bullet. They will have more knock down then a copper bullet, period. And will not blow up like a soft point or ballistic tip.:thumbsup:
 
If lead is an issue, I wouldn't use any lead bullet. Even bonded bullets do not have 100% weight retention. Maybe not so much, but you will get some lead shedding. The new generation of monolithic bullets are proving to be quite effective. I'd go with a quality, copper bullet. plenty to choose from.
Some guns are picky about what they like for accuracy, though. I have a Sako Finnbear .30-06 that shoots Nosler partitions into one hole. It wouldn't group the early Barnes X bullets into a six inch circle. But the later versions are supposed to be quite accurate. You may have to experiment around to find a bullet and load your particular gun likes. But the copper bullets will solve the lead in meat problem. There isn't any.
 
I like Barnes bullets don't get me wrong. But, that said, I don't buy them for loading because for the difference in price vs a perfectly good bonded bullet with equal or more killing capability, I can buy beef instead.:D I like to shoot my guns, so 2-3 bucks a throw aint happenin.;) For me at least. Barnes thinks they are gold and not copper is what I think. Me I say over rated for the price. But yes if you want 0 lead, they are the best out there.:thumbsup:
 
FCSpringer said:
Toad, yes power shok is a cheap deer round. It is a "soft point" bullet. You will be fine to just go with the fed premium "fusion" loads. They are a "bonded" bullet that holds together. Bonding has the copper molecules attached right to the lead core essentially kind of making them one. Very cool and very deadly. Fusion would be my first choice in over the counter deer loads. I load the same bullet style in 64 grain. Nosler bonded performance, and they are sweet. Winchester also has a factory round with that bonded bullet. They will have more knock down then a copper bullet, period. And will not blow up like a soft point or ballistic tip.:thumbsup:
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Thanks for the lesson on bullets. I wish I had known that before I bought the power shok last year. So many times in life you don't know what you don't know... :laugh:

Barnes TTSX is already on order in .243 and 30.06, so hopefully it will get the job done. And hopefully sight in quickly. I hear what you are saying about the solid copper not having ultimate knockdown power compared to the mass of lead. I can only hope that the TTSX in .243 will be sufficient for the close range and likely small deer it will be used on.
 
I hear you about the price per trigger pull. I really hope they hit the same hole as the lead bullets we previously used to sight in the rifles, so we don't burn through too much of the box getting the rifles sighted in.

I did experience some sticker shock at over $40 a box for the 30.06. But if I sight it in and still get a dozen deer out of it, then it's really pretty cheap. :laugh:
 
If your using a bench/vise or sight in sled, you shoot once, then while aiming at your same point have someone adjust your scope towards the impact of your first shot on the target. You will save a bunch of shooting and time dialing in your scope. When reloading, accubonds and barnes are basically the same price per 50. 35 dollars for 50 bullets. I think you will be surprised how they perform and if you do hit a shoulder, there is less meat damage. I am a fan of both bullets for big game.:cheers:
 
Bleu, where do you find Barnes at the same price as Nosler? I can get Nosler trophy grade custom ammo, 150 to 165g AB's for 28 bucks a box in .308, SSA accubonds for 24$. Barns loaded is almost 50 bucks a box at the same site. SPS. AB's in that same bullet for 19$ per 50.:D If you just shoot a couple rounds a year that's no big deal. But I order bullets by the 1,000. And I shoot a bunch LOL. I would shoot some barnes if they were 20 bucks for a 50 count. Toad you have no worry about accuracy or killing power. They have plenty of that.:thumbsup:
 
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I can't tell you about loaded ammo.. But just buying the bullets the Accubonds were 35 dollars the last time I grabbed some for reloading. 165 and 180 gr Accubond in .308 . box of 50.. I haven't bought loaded rifle ammo for many years. 22lr doesn't count.lol
 
First of all, premium lead or copper-core bullets are not required for properly dispatching deer sized game. In fact, the no-tox bullets only work best at high velocities. While it is possible for any bullet to fail, most of the so-called "bullet failures" are due to poor shot placement. I know, no one ever misses the vitals, and all failures were "perfect lung shots".

I have a .243, and have killed many deer with one since 1972, and the majority were with 100 gr. Rem. Core-Lokt's. However, with lot's of new bullets to play with, I have gravitated to the Nosler BTip and Berger Hunting VLD. If you rifle shoots them well, and if placed correctly, you will like the results.

I do like the Barnes TSX/TTSX (and Nosler E-Tip's) in larger calibers than the .243. In fact, my .25-06 just tested well with the 100-grain Nosler E-Tip. Regarding the Hornady GMX, I've only killed one whitetail with them (30-06-150gr) and was NOT impressed. It was due to that particular GMX opening way too slowly on a deer sized critter.
 
CRP said:
First of all, premium lead or copper-core bullets are not required for properly dispatching deer sized game. In fact, the no-tox bullets only work best at high velocities. While it is possible for any bullet to fail, most of the so-called "bullet failures" are due to poor shot placement. I know, no one ever misses the vitals, and all failures were "perfect lung shots".
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In our case, the shot placement was pretty dang perfect. It was a yearling doe slightly quartering away. I got a hands on look at the entry hole, and the inside of the deer, so ... Anyway, the bullet did not fail to dispatch the deer, but it did leave a lot of tiny flecks of lead in the opposite front leg.

So we'll try something different this year and hopefully it works better. If not, I guess we'll be on the hunt for a different bullet again next season.
:cheers:
 
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