Cedars?

Thatguy said:
They are native but historically very few existed. Mostly on seeps on north facing hillsides where fire couldnt get them. They didnt really start offerring them until the dustbowl when the buffalo grass was gone due to tillage and nothing held the soil.. The govt also planted salt cedar and sericea lespedeza and we all know how that has turned out.
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That proves my point that managed correctly they aren't a problem. Don't overgrazed and use controlled burns. I speak from experience I am not just pulling this out of thin air. Unlike a lot of you guys I manage thousands of acres of land to be precise just over 8000, and none has cedars. I have more problem controlling mulberry, locust and hedge. Cedars will burn like gasoline. It's just laziness or just not caring if they get out of control.
 
The problem is as you go west rainfall amounts decrease. You are trying to compare eastern KS control and reasons for burning to western KS in terms of fire and its a totally different ballgame. I live not far from you. I burn every year, and its easy for me to do so. They same does not hold true in say Hodgeman county or Barber county.

And I have helped treat alot more than 8k acres so I do have an idea what I am talking about. Ive done burns from texas to nebraska and over into Missouri.
 
Thatguy said:
The problem is as you go west rainfall amounts decrease. You are trying to compare eastern KS control and reasons for burning to western KS in terms of fire and its a totally different ballgame. I live not far from you. I burn every year, and its easy for me to do so. They same does not hold true in say Hodgeman county or Barber county.

And I have helped treat alot more than 8k acres so I do have an idea what I am talking about. Ive done burns from texas to nebraska and over into Missouri.
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I own 800 acres in Ness and Finney county. I have burned out there too. Also if you cut a cedar off at the ground it's dead, one of the few trees like that.
 
Thatguy said:
I am aware. Ive put more cedars to their death than you will in your lifetime.
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Lol I doubt it but who cares. You don't have to use fire or cut them by hand. A batwing mower is effective also. A hedge or locust just grows back as well as blackberry. A cedar is a goner. I just ordered 500 to plant so please stay away from them. lol
 
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fsentkilr said:
Lol I doubt it but who cares. You don't have to use fire or cut them by hand. A batwing mower is effective also. A hedge or locust just grows back as well as blackberry. A cedar is a goner. I just ordered 500 to plant so please stay away from them. lol
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I'll find you on the landowner map and my Stihl will be put to work shortly after you've announced their planting. :D :thumbsup:


(PS - no one is ragging on you about cedars or planting them for habitat - you get it obviously, and we understand in western KS and God forbid eastern ks where folks aren't lazy or ignorant they can serve a purpose. I have checked out the general area you farm on Onx and you can tell from the sat images it's well managed - my gripes specifically are from the laziness, ignorance and indifference A LOT of landowners across KS and Oklahoma where I've traveled exhibit the qualities I mentioned and you alluded to in a reply and IMO should be considered just as or more detrimental to the environment/habitat as polluting. What is frustrating about this as a prairie enthusiast if you will is IMO it's really not rocket science to manage these places - it just takes stirring the ingredients in the right order to make them all work. Most do not seem to care to do so and continue down the same path they've always traveled. I find it refreshing at least in some of the ag content I've found online it seems some of the younger guys getting into ranching/crop production may be realizing there can be more profit to be had in resorting to some of the old ways and really mimicing how the buffalo/grassland animals grazed/migrated across the great plains.




But back on topic, you know the cedar thicket V-John posted is damn good deer habitat - throw 10k lbs of corn and $20k in deer huts, $5k in cell phone game cameras and you'll have the next record book KS deer :mad: :( (Insert sarcasm and extreme annoyance with folks for letting this happen collectively)

We're on the same team believe it or not Mike. :thumbsup:
 
KsHusker said:
I'll find you on the landowner map and my Stihl will be put to work shortly after you've announced their planting. :D :thumbsup:


(PS - no one is ragging on you about cedars or planting them for habitat - you get it obviously, and we understand in western KS and God forbid eastern ks where folks aren't lazy or ignorant they can serve a purpose. I have checked out the general area you farm on Onx and you can tell from the sat images it's well managed - my gripes specifically are from the laziness, ignorance and indifference A LOT of landowners across KS and Oklahoma where I've traveled exhibit the qualities I mentioned and you alluded to in a reply and IMO should be considered just as or more detrimental to the environment/habitat as polluting. What is frustrating about this as a prairie enthusiast if you will is IMO it's really not rocket science to manage these places - it just takes stirring the ingredients in the right order to make them all work. Most do not seem to care to do so and continue down the same path they've always traveled. I find it refreshing at least in some of the ag content I've found online it seems some of the younger guys getting into ranching/crop production may be realizing there can be more profit to be had in resorting to some of the old ways and really mimicing how the buffalo/grassland animals grazed/migrated across the great plains.




But back on topic, you know the cedar thicket V-John posted is damn good deer habitat - throw 10k lbs of corn and $20k in deer huts, $5k in cell phone game cameras and you'll have the next record book KS deer :mad: :( (Insert sarcasm and extreme annoyance with folks for letting this happen collectively)

We're on the same team believe it or not Mike. :thumbsup:
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Yes I agree with everything you said. It's not just laziness or ignorance but that is a lot of it. The fact that as you say dense cedar thickets are great deer habitat is also part of the problem. Deer habitat has an economic value, where it used to be if cedars took over a pasture it was worthless. Now people will buy it or lease it to hunt on, and its worth just as much as good clean grass. It used to be if a guy was planning on selling his ground or leasing it out to retire on he had to keep his pastures clean to be worth anything. Now especially if it's close to a city that's not the case. Case in point, I know of 80 acres that just sold an hour and a half south of Kansas City, As perfect clean grass it would have brought from 1500 to at the most 2000 if it had good ponds and good fence which it didn't. It was overgrown with locust, hedge and cedars, so thick you couldn't see through them on most of it. It brought 2800 an acre to an out of state hunter. If it weren't for the fact that the trees have value where 25 years ago they didn't people would control them better.
 
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V-John said:
While I dont think that Manhattan will burn to the ground, there are lots of good points made about cedars. As I was running dogs and looking for a dog who had made a 1mile cast, I walked through some pastures that are in big trouble and this topic came to mind. Took some pictures... Its a damn shame they are some beautiful pastures.

Edit - My apologies for the size of the pictures on the thread. Im not sure how to post them as thumbnails.
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If that tiny amount of snow is enough to bury the rest of the cover, the birds never had a chance there anyway.
 
Toad said:
If that tiny amount of snow is enough to bury the rest of the cover, the birds never had a chance there anyway.
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I go out there daily to run the dogs and let them burn some energy. Frankly, I'm glad there aren't birds out there, simply because I have dogs that I want to maintain manners on and it can be difficult with seven or eight dogs on the ground. That being said, you know how much snow we got - and that day I was looking for the dog, the snow was gone by the afternoon. It was strange.
KSHusker - there were a helluva lot of turkey tracks though! Those guys can seemingly live through anything.
 
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