Brittany is perfect when close, then wild

T

thecityman

New member
Hi. My name is Kevin and I'm very new and inexperienced when it comes to training. I recently purchased a full blooded Brittany Spaniel. He is fixed and is a year old and has been to some kind of hunting training course before I got him. He is very well behaved, desperate to please me, and I trained him to sit, heel, lay down, rollover, shake, and stay on command and without much difficulty at all. So he is very trainable. He is mostly an inside dog but I live on a small farm so he gets to go outside quite a bit. But here is the problem.....

WHen he is in the house and I say "COME" he instantly jumps up and runs-not walks- to me. Same thing if we are in my backyard....but only when he is within about 30 feet of me. If he is close to me and I say Come, he runs to me instantly. But here is the problem (finally). Once he gets a little further away- lets say beyond about 30-40 feet from me, he just completely looses his mind! He starts running around and jumping and just going crazy. Its fun to see him have that much fun, but he completely looses the ability to even hear me and certainly doesn't respond. Worse still, once he gets in that wild mode where he will no longer respond to any of my commands, he will run far, far away. I mean like 1/2 mile or more. If I try to chase him down with my car and yell at him, he either ignores me completely, or seems to deliberately run away when I call him. I sort of can sense that he is having so much fun that he doesn't want to have to come to me because I'll make him behave and/or go back inside the house.

I've read to put him on a long, long rope and I've tried that. Didn't seem to help anything. He would come when on the end of a long rope, but still goes crazy when I take him off and he gets some distance between us.

ANyone ever heard of a problem like this? I want to hunt with him to and he points great and isn't the least bit bothered by gunfire, but he will run way, way too far afield. Currently, all I can do when he gets in "crazy mode" is give up and wait about an hour and a half. He always shows back up and is ready to come inside.

I signed up here just to try and get help with this problem (and to learn more) so I really hope someone will respond. Thank-you.
 
Kevin Welcome to uph. your dog is still a puppy. you need to get a shock collar one that has a stimulator and nick modes. this will get his attention. go easy one the shock and nick. But remember he is still a puppy.
 
I agree with the aforementioned e collar...nothing gets their attention better than a little juice.

Of course, training the dog to stay in range is mandatory. And can be a problem for the life of the dog!

Get a good book on training or video...

Best of luck with your new puppy.
 
THanks so much!

Thank you both very, very much for taking the time to respond to my question. I will not be one of those new forum users who asks a question and then only checks back one or two times before loosing interest. I love my new dog and while my training ability are extremely limited, I'm having the time of my life with my new dog and training him and so on. So for me, he is more than a beloved pet (though he very much is that), he is my new hobby and I am looking forward to learning a lot more about it, and the replies to my original post tell me this is a great place to learn, so thanks again.

Now.... the good news is that I already bought a remote control shock collar. As soon as I bought my new Brittany and started to read about training, I rushed out and bought a shock collar. (I got it at Tractor Supply and paid about 3 times as much as I should have, based on prices I've seen since then at other places and on-line). ANYWAY, while I do have a shock collar all ready to go and have even put the collar on him for days at a time to get him used to the collar itself (no shocks yet at all). But to be honest, all the reading I've done online has scared me out of using it. Not because I think the shock itself is exceptionally painful or cruel and I'm too interested in that particular debate. My fear from what I've read is that if you don't use the shock collar almost perfectly, you can very quickly and easily ruin your dog. Do you all agree with this or is that exaggerated. I've read that as few as 1 or 2 shocks given at the wrong time can ruin a dog forever. If that is true, and knowing how little I know about training, I'm terrified of using the shock collar.
So if the consensus here on this thread is that the benefits of a shock collar outweigh the risk (do most of you agree with that contention?), then please offer me a little advice on when to shock and how to use the collar to properly train my dog to stay in control and obey me even when he is 50 feet or more away from me and in his "hyperactive mode" I would be grateful. Thanks again! Kevin
 
The only time I would correct a dog with a nick is when I thought he ignored my command. For example, I knew my britt heard me cause his head started to turn. When he snapped his head back in an attempt to pretend he did not hear me, correction time.

If he does not obey because there may be birds distracting him, no correction.

My britts must track me whether they run a lot or stay close. One way to train is play hide and seek.

Garmin came out with a new collar. You may be able to acquire a used Astro for a good price. I bought an extra collar for half price on craigslist. It is much easier to make your dog track you if you always know where there are.
 
Don't worry about selective, moderate use of the collar.

Use your voice command, then voice & tone, then nick (at low setting.)..increasing only until the dog responds. For my dogs, it's usually been around 2-3 on the setting. Don't sustain the current, just hit and release.

Praise the pup when it responds. Then go again through the same routine. Before long, the pup will respond to the tone, and eventually (usually) just the voice command.

Dogs which have been ruined by collars, were actually ruined by the handlers. My current GWP pup had an owner that drained the battery using the collar (he said). Over the last ten months, I doubt I've touched a button three times.

And, and I can't emphasize this too much...it's a puppy, and will be a puppy for a year or so. Keep your expectations realistic. The GWP I mentioned goofs around a fair amount, but this (her first) season in the field, she got real serious and was all work every time we were out hunting.

As you plant wings or pigeons and then let her find them, celebrate the work as if the pup had cured cancer or invented a water-fueled engine! Its brain is hard wired with the program to search and hunt. Once you start satisfying that program, her demeanor will change...I promise.

Best wishes.
 
Kismet said:
Don't worry about selective, moderate use of the collar.

Use your voice command, then voice & tone, then nick (at low setting.)..increasing only until the dog responds. For my dogs, it's usually been around 2-3 on the setting. Don't sustain the current, just hit and release.

Praise the pup when it responds. Then go again through the same routine. Before long, the pup will respond to the tone, and eventually (usually) just the voice command.

Dogs which have been ruined by collars, were actually ruined by the handlers. My current GWP pup had an owner that drained the battery using the collar (he said). Over the last ten months, I doubt I've touched a button three times.

And, and I can't emphasize this too much...it's a puppy, and will be a puppy for a year or so. Keep your expectations realistic. The GWP I mentioned goofs around a fair amount, but this (her first) season in the field, she got real serious and was all work every time we were out hunting.

As you plant wings or pigeons and then let her find them, celebrate the work as if the pup had cured cancer or invented a water-fueled engine! Its brain is hard wired with the program to search and hunt. Once you start satisfying that program, her demeanor will change...I promise.

Best wishes.
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This is spot on advice. Very well put.
 
Kismet said:
Don't worry about selective, moderate use of the collar.

Use your voice command, then voice & tone, then nick (at low setting.)..increasing only until the dog responds. For my dogs, it's usually been around 2-3 on the setting. Don't sustain the current, just hit and release.

Praise the pup when it responds. Then go again through the same routine. Before long, the pup will respond to the tone, and eventually (usually) just the voice command.

Dogs which have been ruined by collars, were actually ruined by the handlers. My current GWP pup had an owner that drained the battery using the collar (he said). Over the last ten months, I doubt I've touched a button three times.

And, and I can't emphasize this too much...it's a puppy, and will be a puppy for a year or so. Keep your expectations realistic. The GWP I mentioned goofs around a fair amount, but this (her first) season in the field, she got real serious and was all work every time we were out hunting.

As you plant wings or pigeons and then let her find them, celebrate the work as if the pup had cured cancer or invented a water-fueled engine! Its brain is hard wired with the program to search and hunt. Once you start satisfying that program, her demeanor will change...I promise.

Best wishes.
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Kismet is right on track. I have had Britts my whole life, most have always worn an training collars. I will say most have only needed the lowest setting to get their attention. Just remember the collar is for correction not for punishment. I have always tested the collar levels on myself just to see intensity, couple college roommates too but that is another story, then place on lowest. You good sense with it and your pup will be fine, conditions your dog to the collar will help as some of my dogs were two different dogs depending if they had the collar on or not. Enjoy and please post a pic of your pup.
 
more thanks...

I just cannot express how grateful I am for all the responses- not only for their quantity but for their quality. I learned a great deal from every single response. But of course, they also led to a few more questions-
One is just plain curiosity: what does "nick" stand for. Its easy to tell from the context that you all are using it to mean "shock" and/or "the application of actual electrical shock via collar". But I just am curious about what "nick" stands for or refers to verbatum?
Another thing I want to make sure I understood (or that you understood) is when several of you said my dog is just a puppy and will mature and grow up later. He is actually a little over a year old. So, is a 13 month old dog still considered an immature puppy, or did you all just assume by the things I said that my dog is much younger than he is. I ask this because my one regret in getting him is that he was a year old when I bought him. While I got a great deal on him because he wasn't an 2-4 m week old TRUE puppy, I worried that I'd never be able to create the kind of close bond you get when you raise a puppy, and that he'd be harder to train since he was no longer a little, young puppy. From the posts here I suspect I may have been wrong and that a year old dog is still a "puppy" and open to training, right or wrong?
I also very much appreciate you folks reassuring me that if I am careful and conservative in using the shock collar, it can be a helpful tool. More importantly, you've assured me that I'm not likely to ruin my dog with one misplaced shock (though clearly I need to be very careful and read up on how to train with the correction collar
Last but not least, I even appreciate the clarification on what brittany's are called now. I had read somewhere that AKC no longer used "spaniel" but I didn't realize the general population also no longer call them spaniels.
Sorry I tend to post such long entries, but this is important to me and I wanted everyone to know i appreciate you taking your time to try and help. I'm still going to follow this thread closely, so if anyone else has any other specific suggestions on how I can get my dog to stay in control and to listen and obey my commands when he gets about 50 feet away and kind of goes nuts, I'd welcome your info. thanks all.
 
A "nick" is an option on your collar that only stimulates for 1/10 of a second. Just enough to get their attention.
 
The "nick" is a quick shock, today's collars typically have a tone button - no shock just sound, nick button when pressed quick shock and a button that shocks as long as you hold but will stop after a set time mine is 8 seconds. I could never imagine sshocking my dog for 8 seconds. The nick usually does the trick.
Regarding being a pup I consider them a pup till they turn 2. Your pup is still very trainable in my opinion, mine is almost 2 and she is still very trainable and will be for some time. Not sure what range you wanting him to range out, you might consider whistle training him, he might hear the whistle better than your voice. I've never cared for whistles, I do run mine with a bell or a beeper depending on the cover I'm hunting. My Britt is in the small size just at 30lbs so she disappears rather quickly so I need something on her so I know her location. I use a bell in grouse woods and beeper in pheasant country.
 
Count me as +1 on all the advice you have been given. This is a great forum.

I would suggest putting the dog and yourself through a formal puppy obedience class. You'll get your dog well versed on the basics like sit, stay, come, and heel, in an organized way. Your dog will listen to you better, and you will get practice at working together not just playing together. Talk to the trainer about using the E-collar and let him/her help you know when and how to use it. I know you said you have taught him some commands on your own, but maybe it would be a benefit to get a pro and go through a formal class with some distractions like other people and their dogs.

Finally, just remember that a Brittany is not meant to hunt under your feet. He is meant to get out there a good distance and find birds for you. If he gets a couple hundred yards away while you are hunting, he is probably just doing what he was trained to do by the previous owner. When you're following him in the car, he's probably thinking it just means he can run faster and you'll keep up. :laugh: He needs to learn what you want him to do, because it sounds like he wants to please you he just hasn't learned how. That's why I think the obedience class would get you going in the right direction.

Sounds like a fun dog. Good luck to both of you. :thumbsup:
 
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I strongly recommend getting the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVD set and using Jon Hann's methods for properly collar conditioning your dog. Before using the e-collar, your dog has to fully understand what you are asking of it. Overlaying your command with proper timing with the collar is the key. If you follow Jon's methods, you should have a well trained hunting companion when you are finished. Also, as Toad said, a Brittany should not be hunting at your feet in gun range. A pointing dog should be out finding birds. I realize not everyone is comfortable with a dog a couple hundred yards out in front, but don't try to keep them at 20 yards either. If you can get them to recall reliably and they are steady on their birds, there is no problem with the dog being 75-100 yards out in front of you.
 
JeremyS said:
I strongly recommend getting the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVD set and using Jon Hann's methods for properly collar conditioning your dog. Before using the e-collar, your dog has to fully understand what you are asking of it. Overlaying your command with proper timing with the collar is the key. If you follow Jon's methods, you should have a well trained hunting companion when you are finished. Also, as Toad said, a Brittany should not be hunting at your feet in gun range. A pointing dog should be out finding birds. I realize not everyone is comfortable with a dog a couple hundred yards out in front, but don't try to keep them at 20 yards either. If you can get them to recall reliably and they are steady on their birds, there is no problem with the dog being 75-100 yards out in front of you.
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this is good advice and what specific collar did you buy, some collars are not suitable for soft dogs

what brand and model??


one more thing your pup is acting exactly like any good pup does it will be easy to correct
 
JeremyS said:
I strongly recommend getting the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish DVD set and using Jon Hann's methods for properly collar conditioning your dog. Before using the e-collar, your dog has to fully understand what you are asking of it. Overlaying your command with proper timing with the collar is the key. If you follow Jon's methods, you should have a well trained hunting companion when you are finished. Also, as Toad said, a Brittany should not be hunting at your feet in gun range. A pointing dog should be out finding birds. I realize not everyone is comfortable with a dog a couple hundred yards out in front, but don't try to keep them at 20 yards either. If you can get them to recall reliably and they are steady on their birds, there is no problem with the dog being 75-100 yards out in front of you.
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Or George Hickox's Training Pointing Dogs or Puppy Development I & II by Ronnie Smith. These are all great products that will allow you to handle the basics of training your dog confidently. One piece of advice that you don't usually get from those videos for you, you have to remain calm. If you've had a bad day at work, decompress fully before you head out for your training session or go on a run/walk to shake off the worries/BS that may have followed you home. If you get frustrated the dog will be frustrated. I've spent some time around quite a few guys who have literally trained a hundred or more dogs and it is amazing to me that when the dog is flipping out and being a nightmare they never get angry and keep the same demeanor while working with the dog. I think in the Hickox video the dog is like tangling him up in the check cord and he's just laughing like its the best time in the world.
 
Posting mainly to follow, but I'll give my $.02 also.

I have a 7 month old GSP, that sounds a lot like your Britt. She's never run from me in the field but she does seem to get very distracted when we are out. The key for me to get her to obey is to get her attention. I have an e-collar, but I haven't used it yet, and at her young age I probably won't use it at all this season. She will get used to it during summer training however. I use the check cord (long rope) when we are in unfamiliar areas. In areas that I'm concerned for her safety or that she might head to the next county I make her wear it. It's a training aid that for her means that I have control, not her. I don't hold it but let her run free with the cord, it's like having a 30 foot arm. Also, I never ever chase my dog, she's a puppy and chasing for her either means trouble she wants to escape from or a game that she has to stay away to win, neither is a good scenario.

But back to getting her attention... one thing I've done that seems to help is to use the check cord and whistle combination. I use the whistle to get her attention and then the cord to reinforce if she doesn't respond. In an area that he will want to "hunt" but that you are certain won't have birds on it (because at this point that added distraction won't help) let your dog run on the cord, use an extra long one (40-50 feet) to allow them to explore while holding one end. When you want his attention, with a foot or two of slack in your cord tweet your whistle, if he responds with his attention give your come command. If he obeys act like he just cured cancer and reward him with a treat. If he ignores you quickly change directions and give a sharp tug on the line, not enough to yank him off his feet but enough that he is uncomfortable and gives you his attention. Tweet again and give your come command, act like an idiot when he gets it right. The bigger your response the more excited he will be to repeat the behavior. This has been very effective for me in getting my pup to listen to the whistle. Consistent repetition is very important.
If you have the e-collar, you may want to put it on him when you do use the check cord, some dogs equate the training aid (cord, collar) with having to be obedient. I have a friend whose 4 year old dog acts like a jackass when he doesn't have the collar on, but behaves like a recruit fresh out of boot camp when you put the thing on him. You can also work the tone function in along with your whistle, that what you shouldn't have to nick him as much if that is something you are nervous about. Enjoy your training and your new buddy.
 
Can someone explain: why let dogs roam 100 yds.? Isn't there a risk for bumping birds (pheasants)?

And should we let the dogs roam 100 out in a corn field, sorghum field or tree grove, when we can't see them?

At 100 yds., I'm sure the dog isn't walking but still running/chasing, if the bird(s) are on the move.

I don't understand the rationale...
 
jonnyB said:
Can someone explain: why let dogs roam 100 yds.? Isn't there a risk for bumping birds (pheasants)?

And should we let the dogs roam 100 out in a corn field, sorghum field or tree grove, when we can't see them?

At 100 yds., I'm sure the dog isn't walking but still running/chasing, if the bird(s) are on the move.

I don't understand the rationale...
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I dont know the type of terrain you hunt, but the dog will certainly find more birds if he/she is allowed to range out further. If you want a boot licker you can certainly turn your dog into one, however more birds will be found if he's allowed to "range".

The dog just needs to learn and associate that the only way he is going to get the reward of chasing/retrieving a wounded/dead bird and tasting the blood is if it finds the bird, points it, and waits for you to shoot it. Only experience will teach the dog this.

In corn stubble a good dog can pin wild pheasants, I've seen and had it happen many a times. I have had the best luck doing so when they are spread out. If theres a good # of pheasants together normally they wont hold well, but if there is one off by itself out in the stubble away from others it is more likely to hold. You can also use the dog if hunting by yourself to "herd" the pheasants to a corner of the field if it's not too big. My 1s setter was better at this tactic. You might get plenty of bumped birds while letting the dog learn. I guess if it's blood and body count you're after you can keep them close and use them as a flushing dog in a stubble field, I like seeing the point/pin the bird myself.

If you ever hunt the grasslands in the plains you certainly wont see much with a dog that stays in closer than 100 yards.


You can reel in the range of the dog through training but likely can never get the range back once you take it away from the dog so to speak. Sounds like you may need to set up some artificial situations and shoot more birds for the dog. Dog is also pretty young, probably wont be pretty polished and experienced until its 3 or 4 years old depending on how many birds it sees. You've still got lots of time.


Those are my .02. I'd start putting the collar on the dog, leave the remote at home and get the dog to associate the collar with play/fun/field time - you know you've accomplished this when they hear the jingle of the collar and come running and want you to put it on them. Then you can start using the shock feature. I rarely if ever use it on my present dog as she's so soft, her mother I had to use it more frequently - I've found it most beneficial to break them on trash such as rabbits, deer etc. But I'd be damn sure its what they're pointing or chasing before applying any electricity.


Yesterday for example my dog was around 100 yards away in a fence row when she pointed a pheasant - I came closer and she relocated/bird moved a little ways - she went on point again - the pheasant sat there since he was by himself and allowed me to take a picture/unload my gun, cross the fence and walk 10 yards to where she was. Ended up making a good shot and bagged the 2nd year bird.
 
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