Boss shotgun ammunition

Kre said:
I'm very pleased with the 1 ounce #5 Boss shells (16 ga).

I want to get some 1-1/8 ounce and was thinking about #4. But, now I'm thinking about sticking with the #5.

I rarely take those long shots...most shots are over point. Thoughts?
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I shot 1 oz of Kent 5s for years, happily, unless shots were over 40 yds. Boss 4s made a nice difference, but as pellet count decreased, it became apparent in my ability to kill longer birds, & I had to tighten up my choke a bit. Not a big deal, but not ideal. If I rarely took a 40+ yd shot, I'd use 5s, but they're just not rare enough. I'd be real curious to get a good pellet/oz count on Boss's current run of 5s. Of course, if the guys hoarding cases & cases 1-1/4 oz Tungsten Matrix 5s they'll never shoot would just sell them to me, I could just forget about this bismuth business forever.
 
Regarding the OP, about 4 years ago, I purchased 2 boxes of Boss 2 3/4" 12 gauge 1 1/4 oz #6 copper plated bismuth with a stated velocity of 1350 fps.

I shot some pheasants with it through a modified choke and it worked well.

I also shot some through a full choke on a turkey target to see if would work for turkeys.

I found one of those targets recently and it is shown below. As you can see below, the pattern is sparse and some of the shot has fragmented. That fits my observations when I cleaned the birds that I bagged with that ammunition.

While your mileage may vary, I see no major advantage of bismuth shot over steel for my pheasant and waterfowl hunting.

IMG_20240216_081838836.jpg
 
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John Singer said:
Regarding the OP, about 4 years ago, I purchased 2 boxes of Boss 2 3/4" 12 gauge 1 1/4 oz #6 copper plated bismuth with a stated velocity of 1350 fps.

I shot some pheasants with it through a modified choke and it worked well.

I also shot some through a full choke on a turkey target to see if would work for turkeys.

I found one of those targets recently and it is shown below. As you can see below, the pattern is sparse and some of the shot has fragmented. That fits my observations when I cleaned the birds that I bagged with that ammunition.

While your mileage may vary, I see no major advantage of bismuth shot over steel for my pheasant and waterfowl hunting.

View attachment 7620
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I'm having a hard time visualizing that pattern because it seems way way terrible. I bet I had a denser pattern with the #4s out of a mod choke. #6 should have way more pellets. Did the bulk of it hit above or to the sides? But yeah I also never fully liked bismuth. I just feel it had too many bunches/holes in the pattern even if the total in a 30inch circle is "okay", which I think is due to the fragmentation. It's a big part why I think the buffered load should be tested more. It could in theory be the solution and maybe #5s are the key to that if they are doing bigger pellets.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
I'm having a hard time visualizing that pattern because it seems way way terrible. I bet I had a denser pattern with the #4s out of a mod choke. #6 should have way more pellets. Did the bulk of it hit above or to the sides? But yeah I also never fully liked bismuth. I just feel it had too many bunches/holes in the pattern even if the total in a 30inch circle is "okay", which I think is due to the fragmentation. It's a big part why I think the buffered load should be tested more. It could in theory be the solution and maybe #5s are the key to that if they are doing bigger pellets.
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I do not recall where the rest of that pattern ended up. I shot that target 4 years ago. I found it in my files the other day as I was working up a turkey load for this spring.

I recently shot a 1 1/8 oz #4 steel pattern that is denser and more even at 40 yards than that bismuth is at 35 yards.

The following was shot with the same gun and choke as the above bismuth pattern.
IMG_20240218_192137258.jpg
 
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A5 Sweet 16 said:
Agreed. Just my guess, but I don't see non-tox shells ever going down, whether lead is legal or not. Can't think of a single sporting goods item, that wasn't obsolete, that went down in price.
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Steel maybe did not go down in price, but compared to “good” lead, it went way down. In the 70’s, steel was about 3 times the price of high velocity plated lead. Now the comparable lead costs more than steel.
 
captainshotgun said:
Steel maybe did not go down in price, but compared to “good” lead, it went way down. In the 70’s, steel was about 3 times the price of high velocity plated lead. Now the comparable lead costs more than steel.
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The only comment I'll add. Take a cheap lead load from a well known mfg. and it is better than any steel load ever produced.
 
John Singer said:
Here is an interesting article related to your comment.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/steel-shot-lethality-testing/
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I do appreciate that article. Tom Roster as done a ton of work looking at the exact things we are talking about. And it is nice that mass field data takes into account more than just our calculators do. Specifically how steels hardness causes much tighter groups which certainly helps to increase kills. Although he did note that they missed more as well due to that, which I think is maybe glossed over too much.

I would be curious on the actual numbers of it all, especially with choke difference.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Steel can be used effectively, but ounce for ounce, it's inferior. Most people (& most factory ammunition) don't use large enough shot or large enough payloads.
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I don’t think payload is a problem in a 12 guage. If I could find something an 1 1/8 at 1450 I’d buy it and shoot it no problem . Everything I’ve seen at that weight is souped up to like 1600 Speed kills! lol
No doubt if I was shooting anything other than a 12 gauge I’d be looking at bismuth
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Steel can be used effectively, but ounce for ounce, it's inferior. Most people (& most factory ammunition) don't use large enough shot or large enough payloads.
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And bismuth is inferior to lead, lead is inferior to hevishot, and hevishot is inferior to TSS. Its just physics. I mean we can go as high as you want.. TSS is inferior to uranium.

Its not anything new that each shot type is inferior to another, thats where the common sense and research is needed regarding shot size and effective range for the targeted species.

Steel has been somewhat common and killing birds since the 80s... If it didnt work, the industry would have shifted away from it decades ago and states would have restricted its use instead of pushing for it
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
I don’t think payload is a problem in a 12 guage. If I could find something an 1 1/8 at 1450 I’d buy it and shoot it no problem . Everything I’ve seen at that weight is souped up to like 1600 Speed kills! lol
No doubt if I was shooting anything other than a 12 gauge I’d be looking at bismuth
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You can likely go to any major sporting goods store and find the slower shells. Just buy 2.75" instead of 3". I shot 2.75" 1 1/8 1400fps shells for years, duck hunting. Just off the top of my head Rio makes 2.75" at 1375, federal is 1500, nitro steel is 1400.
 
KEOutdoors said:
And bismuth is inferior to lead, lead is inferior to hevishot, and hevishot is inferior to TSS. Its just physics. I mean we can go as high as you want.. TSS is inferior to uranium.

Its not anything new that each shot type is inferior to another, thats where the common sense and research is needed regarding shot size and effective range for the targeted species.

Steel has been somewhat common and killing birds since the 80s... If it didnt work, the industry would have shifted away from it decades ago and states would have restricted its use instead of pushing for it
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I do feel like too many people miss this point. Density is king in shotgun ballistics. it's the only thing that doesn't seem to need balancing against something else. Well, cost and maybe toxicity, but not in physics. Everything else is a balance between number of pellets, range, and recoil.

Although there is wiggle room for the debate about hardness. Steel/tungsten can pattern very well due to hardness, although doesn't respond to choke changes as much. Bismuth/lead are the opposite. Whether one or the other is better is certainly up for debate. And then we can debate if bismuth fragments too much and if lead deformation helps with lethality.
 
This won't change any minds and it certainly won't change the law, but personally I think steel sucks. I've bought highly touted (and high priced!!) steel as well as, early on, the "promo steel"( ie like Winchester Xpert) and used the steel mostly on ducks, and steel was and is a CRIPPLER!!
I realize there are numerous and very expensive alternatives now, such as Federal's Meateater line at roughly $53/25 shells or TSS which is even more ridiculously priced, but many average duck or pheasant hunters don't use it because they can't afford to.
I've read the articles about how gamebirds ingest the lead pellets, etc. but gamebirds also suffer from the steel that often wounds grievously but is not effective enough to kill outright. I'll use lead whenever/wherever I can, and Boss otherwise. Wounded birds lost are a crime!!
 
I have shot Boss #3 - 3” for three years now In my beretta A300 with no problems whatsoever, in any weather. What I don’t like is the random crap shot of receiving high or low brass. I know there are supply issues but they should be buying two or three years out.
 
STS said:
I have shot Boss #3 - 3” for three years now In my beretta A300 with no problems whatsoever, in any weather. What I don’t like is the random crap shot of receiving high or low brass. I know there are supply issues but they should be buying two or three years out.
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If you think that is bad, they also change the wad and shot weight to use what is currently available. There was a post on Facebook where a guy asked why his 12ga 1 1/4 had 1 3/8 of shot in them. The owner came on and said it is not possible, the wad won't hold that. The customer posted pics on his scale... The owner then said he spoke to the guys and they ran out of wads and did a few batches of shells with a shorter wad and had to add more shot to make it fit. So good luck whoever got those and have no idea. Were they safe pressure? Pattern different? Obviously speed is much slower. Who knows...
 
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