Steel/bismuth for pheasants

A5 Sweet 16

A5 Sweet 16

Well-known member
Many of you have read this from me before. Some haven't.

With bismuth, go 1 shot size larger than you'd use with lead. With steel, go 3 sizes bigger than lead. For pheasants, shoot a large enough payload through a gun/choke combo that will give you at LEAST 90-100 pellets evenly distributed throughout a 30" circle at whatever range you consider a "longish" shot (for me, that's 40-45 yds). Muzzle velocity between 1250 & 1350 fps is fine. Faster loads don't gain you any meaningful effective range. They just make it less likely to pattern well. The fast bismuth loads & hyperfast steel loads are nothing more than gimmicks used to trick you into believing you have extended range loads. You don't. Give up on straight-away pheasants further than 35 yds, especially over heavy cover. They're almost impossible to drop & recover unless you're hitting them with a very tight pattern of pretty big shot. That's 4 or 3 bismuth or 2 or 1 steel. Practice shooting. Hunt a lot & learn to relax, get your feet set, really see the bird's head & flight path, mount your gun as perfectly as possible, get a quick lead, pull the trigger, & follow through.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Many of you have read this from me before. Some haven't.

With bismuth, go 1 shot size larger than you'd use with lead. With steel, go 3 sizes bigger than lead. For pheasants, shoot a large enough payload through a gun/choke combo that will give you at LEAST 90-100 pellets evenly distributed throughout a 30" circle at whatever range you consider a "longish" shot (for me, that's 40-45 yds). Muzzle velocity between 1250 & 1350 fps is fine. Faster loads don't gain you any meaningful effective range. They just make it less likely to pattern well. The fast bismuth loads & hyperfast steel loads are nothing more than gimmicks used to trick you into believing you have extended range loads. You don't. Give up on straight-away pheasants further than 35 yds, especially over heavy cover. They're almost impossible to drop & recover unless you're hitting them with a very tight pattern of pretty big shot. That's 4 or 3 bismuth or 2 or 1 steel. Practice shooting. Hunt a lot & learn to relax, get your feet set, really see the bird's head & flight path, mount your gun as perfectly as possible, get a quick lead, pull the trigger, & follow through.
Click to expand...
Always good to give anyone new the respective size shot they should look for. Personally I disagree with the avoiding speed. Speed does increase range, which mostly means you can go down a size instead to increase pellet count instead of range. However it can certainly blow up your pattern. It just so happens that steel patterns tight due to hardness which means it does benefit from speed. If you push more than 1500 on steel then you absolutely should pattern it, although still should pattern any other shells you want too.
 
I agree completely except for the speed with steel. You need speed to keep the velocity up. If you you start it faster it will be moving faster when it hits your target, thus more penetration which is greatly needed with steel. Ive spent so many hours staring at ballistic tables and KPY shotshell ballistics program, and even more hours in the field letting steel fly. 1400fps is the magic number for steel, and is standard velocity. 1550(HV) works too and patterns do not suffer since it is a round projectile (not the case with lead or bismuth!). 1250fps steel is a terrible, terrible, idea and I don't think anyone even sells it anymore for good reasons.

For you 12gaugers, shoot 3 inch 1 1/4 #3 steel at 1400fps and go kill some roosters. Or 2.75" 1 1/4-1 3/8 bismuth 4s at 1300fps.

20gaugers, 3" 1oz steel 3s at 1400fps. Or 2.75" 1 oz bismuth 4s.

16gauge pick any load between those.

Its really that simple. Just pattern your gun.

My personal non tox load for the last couple seasons was 1oz bismuth 4s at 1300fps out of a F/IM gun.
 
In my experience that 40 yards is a very long shot in most pheasant covers. A going away shot at a rooster at that distance or greater is often the mechanism for a lost bird

At distances less to 35 yards and change, both steel and bismuth (properly sized and choked as stated by others above) are very effective.

A crossing shot at 40 to 45 yards over a plowed field, while it is a long shot is very doable.

At this time I have a very good dog. Over my dog, I do not see much of a difference in performance between steel and bismuth.
 
Last edited:
I can't comment on the speed variable with bismuth, as I've never used it. And I haven't used steel in years because I stopped waterfowl hunting.

I do believe that speed helps me when I shoot behind the bird though, which is often the problem most hunters have when they miss. Simple physics says it gets there faster. At a longer range, it may not be a factor but at closer range, quite often I don't even lead the bird on many of my shots and it folds. I try to keep my shots at 30 yards or less and use an IC choke. I wouldn't even raise my shotgun at a rooster that flushes at 40+ yards anymore.
 
gimruis said:
I can't comment on the speed variable with bismuth, as I've never used it. And I haven't used steel in years because I stopped waterfowl hunting.

I do believe that speed helps me when I shoot behind the bird though, which is often the problem most hunters have when they miss. Simple physics says it gets there faster. At a longer range, it may not be a factor but at closer range, quite often I don't even lead the bird on many of my shots and it folds. I try to keep my shots at 30 yards or less and use an IC choke. I wouldn't even raise my shotgun at a rooster that flushes at 40+ yards anymore.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is a good point. Faster velocity does decrease lead distance and it can be noticeable. Although I would put it in the nice bonus category over a goal for shell selection.

I think Bismuth shouldn't be shot fast, because it does suffer from being fragile and can fragment just from the shot. Although that is more of a metallurgy deal and newer methods are always in the works.
 
With steel, a 250 fps increase in muzzle velocity (like from 1300 to 1550) only gains you about 6-7 yds of effective range, depending on shot size. Increasing 1 shot size & staying at 1300 gains you more than that. Yes, you may want to increase payload 1/8 oz, but recoil will still be less than the lighter load at 1550 & better pattern easier to achieve. In general, a 250 fps bump in velocity does NOT permit decreasing shot size, thereby increasing pellet count. The physics just isn't there. I prefer less recoil & a good pattern that's more easily achieved, but shoot what kills for you.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
With steel, a 250 fps increase in muzzle velocity (like from 1300 to 1550) only gains you about 6-7 yds of effective range, depending on shot size. Increasing 1 shot size & staying at 1300 gains you more than that. Yes, you may want to increase payload 1/8 oz, but recoil will still be less than the lighter load at 1550 & better pattern easier to achieve. In general, a 250 fps bump in velocity does NOT permit decreasing shot size, thereby increasing pellet count. The physics just isn't there. I prefer less recoil & a good pattern that's more easily achieved, but shoot what kills for you.
Click to expand...
Increasing 1 shot size decreases pellet count. If you bump up the payload to match pellet count then the recoil is the same as bumping velocity.

I would actually be curious if anyone has KSP KPY to compare my numbers as I had made my own calculator. I used minimum 1.75 inches of penetration for the range on pheasants.

A 1 ounce load of steel #3 going 1600 has 153 pellets and max range of 32 yards on pheasant. With 26 lbs of recoil in 6lb gun.
A 1.23 ounce (basically 1 1/4) of steel #2 has 153 pellets, max range 32 yards and 26 lbs of recoil. Notice how everything is the same.

So the debate really becomes, does the larger slower pellet give more wounding power, or does speed do better? The one thing as mentioned, speed does reduces lead. But as long as pattern holds, I think speed is better. And part of proof, why not use 800-1000 fps of an even larger pellet if speed is bad?
 
Last edited:
LittleBigHorn22 said:
Increasing 1 shot size decreases pellet count. If you bump up the payload to match pellet count then the recoil is the same as bumping velocity.

I would actually be curious if anyone has KSP to compare my numbers as I had made my own calculator. I used minimum 1.75 inches of penetration for the range on pheasants.

A 1 ounce load of steel #3 going 1600 has 153 pellets and max range of 32 yards on pheasant. With 26 lbs of recoil in 6lb gun.
A 1.23 ounce (basically 1 1/4) of steel #2 has 153 pellets, max range 32 yards and 26 lbs of recoil. Notice how everything is the same.

So the debate really becomes, does the larger slower pellet give more wounding power, or does speed do better? The one thing as mentioned, speed does reduces lead. But as long as pattern holds, I think speed is better. And part of proof, why not use 800-1000 fps of an even larger pellet if speed is bad?
Click to expand...
What’s ksp?
 
Never understood the issue with going away shots, they present the largest target area for vital hits. Only a problem if you are shooting behind.
 
CluckNut said:
Never understood the issue with going away shots, they present the largest target area for vital hits. Only a problem if you are shooting behind.
Click to expand...
I get what your saying, but I think they mean going straight away, so your looking and mostly or all tail and back of the bird. The vitals are protected by bones and pellets need more energy to penetrate. Also, the head neck area on a shot like this often isn't even visible.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
Oof. KSP is Kerbal Space Program (a game). I meant to type KYP which is one of the standard shotshell ballistics programs people use.
Click to expand...
Thanks , I thought maybe had something to do with a type of ballistic gel. I always thought penetration at 40 was about what you figured at 30 . I learned something today
 
Bob Peters said:
Not by an amount that anyone can notice or will have much difference while in the field. This is an often repeated fallacy I see repeated every year.
Click to expand...
It's not very substantial, but it is there. While faster things slow down faster a 1600 fps vs 1300 fps (23%) will still be 10-15% faster time on target. I don't have my time in flight calculator so I don't have exact numbers but I would rather have that boost than not. Again, depends on pattern though.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
With steel, a 250 fps increase in muzzle velocity (like from 1300 to 1550) only gains you about 6-7 yds of effective range, depending on shot size. Increasing 1 shot size & staying at 1300 gains you more than that. Yes, you may want to increase payload 1/8 oz, but recoil will still be less than the lighter load at 1550 & better pattern easier to achieve. In general, a 250 fps bump in velocity does NOT permit decreasing shot size, thereby increasing pellet count. The physics just isn't there. I prefer less recoil & a good pattern that's more easily achieved, but shoot what kills for you.
Click to expand...

What are the exact numbers to back up that claim of 6-7 yards? What shot size is that for and what are you using for required penetration?

6-7 yards is typical a whole shot size difference so why do you say it like that is nothing?... 5 yards per size is the general rule for steel shot. 4s to 35, 3s to 40, 2s to 45. Adding 7 yards by increasing velocity to standard numbers from slow shells seems like a no brainer obvious choice.

Hitting a bird with a full pattern of low energy shot isnt the answer, if it was we would all be shooting steel 5s and 6s and lead 7.5s.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
Increasing 1 shot size decreases pellet count. If you bump up the payload to match pellet count then the recoil is the same as bumping velocity.

I would actually be curious if anyone has KSP KPY to compare my numbers as I had made my own calculator. I used minimum 1.75 inches of penetration for the range on pheasants.

A 1 ounce load of steel #3 going 1600 has 153 pellets and max range of 32 yards on pheasant. With 26 lbs of recoil in 6lb gun.
A 1.23 ounce (basically 1 1/4) of steel #2 has 153 pellets, max range 32 yards and 26 lbs of recoil. Notice how everything is the same.

So the debate really becomes, does the larger slower pellet give more wounding power, or does speed do better? The one thing as mentioned, speed does reduces lead. But as long as pattern holds, I think speed is better. And part of proof, why not use 800-1000 fps of an even larger pellet if speed is bad?
Click to expand...

Those numbers do not seem correct. My KPY is on my laptop at home that I would need to dig out, but if memory serves correctly 1.5" penetration with steel 2 at 1400 is over 40 yards.. 46 ish sounds right. They sound correct for steel 5s though, as steel 4s is about 32yds for 1.5" at 1400.
 
Last edited:
LittleBigHorn22 said:
Increasing 1 shot size decreases pellet count. If you bump up the payload to match pellet count then the recoil is the same as bumping velocity.

I would actually be curious if anyone has KSP KPY to compare my numbers as I had made my own calculator. I used minimum 1.75 inches of penetration for the range on pheasants.

A 1 ounce load of steel #3 going 1600 has 153 pellets and max range of 32 yards on pheasant. With 26 lbs of recoil in 6lb gun.
A 1.23 ounce (basically 1 1/4) of steel #2 has 153 pellets, max range 32 yards and 26 lbs of recoil. Notice how everything is the same.

So the debate really becomes, does the larger slower pellet give more wounding power, or does speed do better? The one thing as mentioned, speed does reduces lead. But as long as pattern holds, I think speed is better. And part of proof, why not use 800-1000 fps of an even larger pellet if speed is bad?
Click to expand...

Bumping the payload a full 1/4 oz gives you 2 very similar loads at 1600 fps & 1327 fps, respectively (patternability notwithstanding). Almost negligible recoil energy difference. Both have sufficient energy density to penetrate ok. The fast load decreases the required lead at 34.5 yds by 8.5" on a true crosser. The larger pellet has a little more energy (shock) to transfer to the bird, assuming the pellet remains in the bird. My guess would be those 2 loads would perform nearly identically if the patterns could be made the same.

1.25 oz 2s.JPG

1 oz 3s.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top