SD Open Fields Doctrine soon to be gone.

[3car]

So what was the tiff (that needed rectification) about? Just curious.

Also - FWIW - not to get cross threaded here, but don't LEOs (who aren't Department of Wildlife COs) already require probable cause to enter private property? I thought that was the nub of the issue - COs having much broader authority than other LEOs. Even if they, at their discretion or as a matter of departmental policy, elected to "scale back" their exercise of that authority.

But as you say - no longer a big deal, either way. Now.

Open fields applies to all LE Officers not just game wardens. Soo no, A deputy can go onto private land and check your license if he wants too without probably cause. Just state game wardens cannot check licenses in SD.

 

[KSnative]

Never heard of any state in which county sheriff deputies would, under any circumstance, take time away from their duties to check hunting licenses. The ones I know have their hands full, without taking on other agency's functions.

Do I understand you to say that most LEOs (except COs in SD, now) do not need probable cause in order to enter private premises?

 

[3car]

Never heard of any state in which county sheriff deputies would, under any circumstance, take time away from their duties to check hunting licenses. The ones I know have their hands full, without taking on other agency's functions.

Do I understand you to say that most LEOs (except COs in SD, now) do not need probable cause in order to enter private premises?

Your right, The deputies are usually handling other issues and no need for them to check licenses. Its not generally what they do. I do know a state trooper that checks licenses every once in a while tho but thats him plus his supervisor approves of it. I knew of a deputy in Nebraska that checked licenses as well. Correct, LEO's do not need probable cause or RS to check licenses in SD or enter open fields to check licenses unless your a game warden. Only Game Wardens in SD cannot check your license without actually RS or Reasonable suspicion. Your starting to understand!!!

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

I’ve been checked by the sheriffs dept I guess twice now. I think they are more feeling to make sure you’re not trespassing. But I think it’s more common than you would think.

 

[Golden Hour]

So what was the tiff (that needed rectification) about? Just curious.

Also - FWIW - not to get cross threaded here, but don't LEOs (who aren't Department of Wildlife COs) already require probable cause to enter private property? I thought that was the nub of the issue - COs having much broader authority than other LEOs. Even if they, at their discretion or as a matter of departmental policy, elected to "scale back" their exercise of that authority.

But as you say - no longer a big deal, either way. Now.

My understanding is pure hearsay, so take that for what it is worth, but it helps to understand western SD. It is big, open country. Where I shot my deer this past fall, the closest "road" was over 5 miles away. And it is more of a driveway, but it is designated by the county. The only way to get there is through "ranch roads", or two track ruts in the pasture.

Additionally, there were issues with outfitters using airplanes to herd deer off of public land and onto private land (Harding County). All that to say, the relationship between SDGFP and landowner/outfitters became very contentious. CO's would travel these ranch roads to verify that clients/hunters were properly licensed. CO's were citing open fields. IMO, it was a pissing match that spun out of control. It was at this time (early 2000's) when the first legislation was introduced to limit the CO's ability to check licenses, i.e., through the Open Fields doctrine. The legislation failed, but in effort to appease landowners, the SDGFP modified its protocols for CO's in the field.

 

[KSnative]

Your right, The deputies are usually handling other issues and no need for them to check licenses. Its not generally what they do. I do know a state trooper that checks licenses every once in a while tho but thats him plus his supervisor approves of it. I knew of a deputy in Nebraska that checked licenses as well. Correct, LEO's do not need probable cause or RS to check licenses in SD or enter open fields to check licenses unless your a game warden. Only Game Wardens in SD cannot check your license without actually RS or Reasonable suspicion. Your starting to understand!!!

Forgive my curiosity, it is my nature. It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for hard pressed COs to spend time chasing about fields looking for license violations, when they could conduct the same checks (and a lot more of them) at roadside. Surely, there are other material facts - what's the rest of the story (as Paul Harvey used to say)?

For example, what was the original tiff that spurred the LtGov into action? That might be informative.

I’ve been checked by the sheriffs dept I guess twice now. I think they are more feeling to make sure you’re not trespassing. But I think it’s more common than you would think.

Good to know, and thanks. Was this in Kansas? Were you far afield, or at the road? Curious as to the circumstances - and whether these were random events, or triggered by a call for service.

I remember the days when it was SOP to get out of your car when pulled over, and walk politely up to the nice officer's car door so he didn't have to get out of his car (and off his ticket book). Hard to imagine non-wildlife officers scuffing up their duty shoes by hiking across open country on the chance of catching a lapsed sporting license - but I'm sure I haven't seen it all.

 

[KSnative]

My understanding is pure hearsay, so take that for what it is worth, but it helps to understand western SD. It is big, open country. Where I shot my deer this past fall, the closest "road" was over 5 miles away. And it is more of a driveway, but it is designated by the county. The only way to get there is through "ranch roads", or two track ruts in the pasture.

Additionally, there were issues with outfitters using airplanes to herd deer off of public land and onto private land (Harding County). All that to say, the relationship between SDGFP and landowner/outfitters became very contentious. CO's would travel these ranch roads to verify that clients/hunters were properly licensed. CO's were citing open fields. IMO, it was a pissing match that spun out of control. It was at this time (early 2000's) when the first legislation was introduced to limit the CO's ability to check licenses, i.e., through the Open Fields doctrine. The legislation failed, but in effort to appease landowners, the SDGFP modified its protocols for CO's in the field.

THAT is very informative, and I thank you.

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

Forgive my curiosity, it is my nature. It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for hard pressed COs to spend time chasing about fields looking for license violations, when they could conduct the same checks (and a lot more of them) at roadside. Surely, there are other material facts - what's the rest of the story (as Paul Harvey used to say)?

For example, what was the original tiff that spurred the LtGov into action? That might be informative.



Good to know, and thanks. Was this in Kansas? Were you far afield, or at the road? Curious as to the circumstances - and whether these were random events, or triggered by a call for service.

I remember the days when it was SOP to get out of your car when pulled over, and walk politely up to the nice officer's car door so he didn't have to get out of his car (and off his ticket book). Hard to imagine non-wildlife officers scuffing up their duty shoes by hiking across open country on the chance of catching a lapsed sporting license - but I'm sure I haven't seen it all.

Yes they were in Kansas. They were both on the road. The first was a number of years ago deer hunting and he gave me a ride back to my truck so that I could my license out of my pack, saline county
The second was just last year and I met him at the road and we walked out into the field a ways to keep the dog off of the highway, we had been checked on another piece of the same persons ground the year before by the game warden. grey county

 

[KSnative]

Yes they were in Kansas. They were both on the road. The first was a number of years ago deer hunting and he gave me a ride back to my truck so that I could my license out of my pack, saline county
The second was just last year and I met him at the road and we walked out into the field a ways to keep the dog off of the highway, we had been checked on another piece of the same persons ground the year before by the game warden. grey county

My working theory is that you bear the demeanor of a desperado, hence attract an undue amount of LEO attention. (No aspersions on the Irish in general here, much too close to St. Patrick's day and that would just be ASKING for pain). While I look forward to our clays shoot off, should that blossom into a joint hunting opportunity I will have to ask you to stay at least a quarter of a mile away from me - I can't take the chance of being frisked.

 

[Chestle]

It passed and will soon be law if it isnt already. I wonder how many federal wardens will have uncomfortable contacts now that this passed? There will surely be confusion.

I think _most_ people with any common sense know to comply with any LEO's request when stopped and questioned. There are, as always, parts of the population that don't get it that will escalate the situation. That usually generates a poor result for the person stopped.

In short, no matter where I am, when confronted by a person with a legitimate badge, I will produce my ID/license/whatever. There's always time to litigate the situation later if necessary. All of the states that I hunt are one party consent states. One party consent means that an individual is able to record conversations that they are a part of without the other person (or persons) consent. So if I think I am being illegally detained or harassed, out comes the phone and recording starts.

 

[KSnative]

Your right, The deputies are usually handling other issues and no need for them to check licenses. Its not generally what they do. I do know a state trooper that checks licenses every once in a while tho but thats him plus his supervisor approves of it. I knew of a deputy in Nebraska that checked licenses as well. Correct, LEO's do not need probable cause or RS to check licenses in SD or enter open fields to check licenses unless your a game warden. Only Game Wardens in SD cannot check your license without actually RS or Reasonable suspicion. Your starting to understand!!!

Fun fact: some states are freer than others.

open field doctrine

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

My working theory is that you bear the demeanor of a desperado, hence attract an undue amount of LEO attention. (No aspersions on the Irish in general here, much too close to St. Patrick's day and that would just be ASKING for pain). While I look forward to our clays shoot off, should that blossom into a joint hunting opportunity I will have to ask you to stay at least a quarter of a mile away from me - I can't take the chance of being frisked.

Nah It’s probably the Sedgwick county tags. Geographic profiling. Now that’s another topic.

More than likely though it’s just community. Neighbors being neighbors cops and farmers growing up together, kids in sports together or against each other. Everyone knowing everyone else for hundreds of miles.

 

[KSnative]

Nah It’s probably the Sedgwick county tags. Geographic profiling. Now that’s another topic.

More than likely though it’s just community. Neighbors being neighbors cops and farmers growing up together, kids in sports together or against each other. Everyone knowing everyone else for hundreds of miles.

Sedgwick county tags would explain it. Guess we'll have to take my truck, then. Who rides in the back - you, or your Lab? But glad to hear your experiences don't appear to have been a case of random rousts on private property - most likely a call for service, which makes sense even to me!

But don't discount the possibility that your experiences may have been thinly veiled HWI discrimination. Among my best friends (yes, I have a few) is a gent who was a Boston "southie". Well, is - you never really shake that off. Over his bar (the center piece of his lovely home) is a vintage sign - "No Irish Need Apply". It wasn't all that long ago that this was no joke. And for that matter, I've been told that the original slaves in this country were Irish. Might be so. Although we've had a few US presidents of that extraction, have we not?