Pup won't put his nose to the ground

well Bob- perhaps you need to make a trip

listening to you two- seems you've got some good bird dogs
I've never wanted my Britt's to put the nose to the ground
I'll correct them right quick young
 
You are right Shadow, a good bird dog get more scent from the wind. Than it ever will from the ground. I swear Tony will stand there not moving smelling the wind at times. Then he'll take off hunting. He'll point one bird after than one is worked out. He immediately goes to his next bird and so on. That standing and smelling he must be able to find and pinpoint where each bird is..........Bob
 
Id love to make a trip back to the mid-west. I was born and raised in Minnesota. St. Paul is my old home town. I have thought it over many times. But alas, it just cannot be. I'm to old and health issues prevent me from traveling that far by car. Roughly over 1200 miles. Flying with guns and dog is out of the question. So I'll stay here and play with the few birds I have..........Bob
 
My friends, I would love to come back. But PLEASE accept the fact that there is more to it than just doing it. I have a sister is St.Paul I love to see before one of us pass on. But the way things are it is just impossible for me to do it. My health issues just simply will not permit it..........Bob
 
bobeyerite said:
Id love to make a trip back to the mid-west. I was born and raised in Minnesota. St. Paul is my old home town. I have thought it over many times. But alas, it just cannot be. I'm to old and health issues prevent me from traveling that far by car. Roughly over 1200 miles. Flying with guns and dog is out of the question. So I'll stay here and play with the few birds I have..........Bob
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it's quite ok- I got run over by a diesel tanker when I was 5, went thru a winshield of a car at 17, seperated my shoulder wrestling, compressed two vertabrea trying to keep up with my son in motor cross- messed up a knee getting crazy on the mountain on hot shot skiis, got a dislocated disc in my lower back- still do ok behind my Britt's- but got to let them do the ground covering- I like wide ranging dogs- I can stand still and watch the Garmin GPS

oh- I grew up just south of Bemidgi-
 
Well, that pup that wouldn't put his nose to the ground is now 9 month old. About two weeks ago I planted 5 live birds for him. Weeds were about knee high and fairly thick. The dog (Winston) was quartering right of the get go, staying within range (how he figured that one out I don't know), found and flushed every bird I planted. Something that I thought was going to take and hour to work only took about 15-20 minutes! Ah I know, I'm bragging a little, sorry. It's just that I was very pleased with his abilities at his age and hoping for a long healthy life for the pup! :)

To top it all off, this evening I had the pleasure of watching him track and flush his first wild rooster!

On those planted birds from two weeks ago his nose was up and he nailed them. This evening he actually tracked that wild rooster and flushed him. All and all he's been a great dog to work with so far. I've had a lot of fun. ;)

Ah..........my boy is growing up so fast:D
 
sounds good- we grew up with Golden Retrievers- staying reasonably within gun range was the main thing

he's still pretty young- go easy on him- lot to learn- to hunt the way you want him to is the only thing that counts
 
I've got a bit of experience with Schutzhund, and the tracking parts of it are interesting. One of the things that I learned through it are differences in scent. Wind scent, as ya'll called it, is up higher, and doesn't last as long (think hours). The ground scent is left in each place where the animal to be tracked physically touched something, and lasts much longer (think days). Tracking dogs are taught to find each and every "track" on the ground. They are taught this, because many times they are brought to the track after hours have passed, and wind scent can't be relied upon. We teach these dogs to seek the ground scent by starting out placing a treat in each track, and the dog learns to seek out each step to find a treat. They are then taught to find possible articles along the trail as well, and during a test, the dog will be penalized if it fails to indicate(sniff) each and every footstep of the person being tracked. It does, of course, get much more involved than that, but the take home message is that hunting dogs (excluding a dog that might be blood trailing wounded big game hours after it was wounded) should follow wind scent, as it is much quicker and easier for them to find. You don't want a hunting dog that stops and points or investigates every single feather or place where a bird once was, or you'd be all day covering a small field. Also, any bird that you shoot will have been wounded very recently, so the wind scent is still fresh and accurate. Hope that's clear as mud.
 
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that's nicely said-

pheasant country after the first weekend- a tracker can take you all over the country

I've got a story of two guys following a tracking pointer- comical

soon as mine start to track- it's jerk and get going
 
That tracking story you say is comical. Why don't you write it and post it here in dogs. I think we all would enjoy a good story........Bob
 
will do Bob- I've got two days work in front of me- and- but I did want to check in and see what's going on- I like this forum you see
 
Thank you Shadow I'll be looking forward to it. Yes, this is a very active forum, one of the best I have ever seen.........Bob
 
I can't figure this one out so Maybe someone out there has the answer.:confused: I had Winston my now 10 month old lab out pheasant hunting several times last week. He did a wonderful job with finding and flushing pheasants, but struggled with finding crippled pheasants. The weekend prior he was duck hunting and had no problem finding crippled ducks that managed to get off the water and hide under tall, thick grasses.

My question is two part; 1. Why can Winston find and flush healthy pheasants but can't find cripples? Both are hunkered down in the same cover giving off the same sent (and if anything the cripples are giving off more sent because their dragging limbs)

2. Why can Winston find crippled ducks with ease but not pheasants? I know crippled pheasants run and crippled ducks typically don't go far, but a few crippled pheasants had some major damage to their legs. I knew they didn't go far from were they fell, similar to the duck scenario.

P.S.--I know he's young yet so I'm really taking it easy on him with finding crippled pheasants. I'm not asking for advice on training because I know he'll get it down with time. I'm just curious as to what the difference is between the two scenarios;) --1pheas4
 
Well, a normal pheasant may have been sitting in the Same general area for a while, putting off scent, whereas a cripple likely hits the ground and runs immediately, so I think it seems logical that there would be a bit less scent for your dog to detect on a cripple than on a "normal" bird. As you say, your dog will get better at it with experience.
 
Scenting conditions change from hr to hr. Day to day especially. It can be poor for several days in a row. With the dry weather we had before this rain scenting was tough for dogs on moving birds, not just yours. Top that with in experience and that is what happened. It will get better with age. You can toss those crips out in some light cover wet and let him trail them out again to help him along.:thumbsup: Crips or clips are good for training. I just don't want to be reincarnated as a training bird.:D
 
1pheas4 said:
1. Why can Winston find and flush healthy pheasants but can't find cripples?

2. Why can Winston find crippled ducks with ease but not pheasants?
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1. This could be a long shot but I've seen it before when training dogs... there is a chance that Winston has been negatively conditioned at some point to downed, struggling birds. Wether he caught a spur from a bird at a young(er) age or a beak to the nose, it is possible that he knows exactly where the bird is but doesn't want to go close to it in fear of getting smacked (again).

2. Answer to #1 could explain this too as Winston may have no bad conditioning to picking up a duck so he doesn't mind digging into heavy cover to snatch them up after you've dropped them.
 
Kal said:
1. This could be a long shot but I've seen it before when training dogs... there is a chance that Winston has been negatively conditioned at some point to downed, struggling birds. Wether he caught a spur from a bird at a young(er) age or a beak to the nose, it is possible that he knows exactly where the bird is but doesn't want to go close to it in fear of getting smacked (again).

2. Answer to #1 could explain this too as Winston may have no bad conditioning to picking up a duck so he doesn't mind digging into heavy cover to snatch them up after you've dropped them.
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one thought I had is because my 14mo pup is having trouble doing this â??*is he going out far enough for the retrieve? Is there any problem hunting dead? I've dropped a couple birds in some thick cover and her vision has been blocked a bit. So she's going out several yards short of the actual fall. If he's marking the fall just fine and getting to that spot as a starting point, then obviously disregard.

With the weaker scent, possibly poor scenting conditions, maybe it's all just adding up for tough recoveries?
 
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