Josey's First Hunt on Wild Birds - January 3, 2021

[walk213]

With Echo on injured reserve, I decided to take Josey (18m) out east on her first ever upland hunt. Candidly, I was apprehensive despite the training successes we had been experiencing. Josey is very sensitive, and she has not yet responded to collar conditioning. Additionally, we have struggled with retrieves on downed birds. To those points, I didn't know if we would find harmony in the field. She actually started out very well, with a strong track on a running rooster. When I thought the bird shook us, she found him, and I blew the opportunity.

I took Josey to a large CRP field, where it went bad quickly. She actually got lost, and I had to search for her. When I found her, she was sitting in the field shaking. For the next few hours she barley left my feet. As the afternoon went on, she started to gain some confidence, and she returned to hunting.

The reality for me is that Josey is not ready. I need to figure out how to help her get better.

 

[remy3424]

I know many here don't like bells, but in deep crp, when you can't see your dog at 10 yards, it will keep this from happening. I keep a bell on a snap swivel in a pocket in my coat for these parcels. A dog on a fresh scent can get away in no-time if you can't even tell it is happening. Hope you get that worked out. You might avoid that thick cover if you don't like bells or until you can keep the dog close. Some dogs just freeze up when they can't find you. You might have to "talk" to them so they know where you are in that cover...was just in one of those parcels yesterday. Lot of guys want to hunt 'silent", so bells and "talk" won't work for everyone. I would rather be silent, but I am not sure it matters, the birds know you are there....guessing no one has snuck-up on a wild pheasant while hunting. With season ending, you have the off-season to work with her.

 

[Labs]

I know many here don't like bells, but in deep crp, when you can't see your dog at 10 yards, it will keep this from happening. I keep a bell on a snap swivel in a pocket in my coat for these parcels. A dog on a fresh scent can get away in no-time if you can't even tell it is happening. Hope you get that worked out. You might avoid that thick cover if you don't like bells or until you can keep the dog close. Some dogs just freeze up when they can't find you. You might have to "talk" to them so they know where you are in that cover...was just in one of those parcels yesterday. Lot of guys want to hunt 'silent", so bells and "talk" won't work for everyone. I would rather be silent, but I am not sure it matters, the birds know you are there....guessing no one has snuck-up on a wild pheasant while hunting. With season ending, you have the off-season to work with her.

I've idly wondered if I could put a bike flag on each member of the Crew...

 

[Labs]

With Echo on injured reserve, I decided to take Josey (18m) out east on her first ever upland hunt. Candidly, I was apprehensive despite the training successes we had been experiencing. Josey is very sensitive, and she has not yet responded to collar conditioning. Additionally, we have struggled with retrieves on downed birds. To those points, I didn't know if we would find harmony in the field. She actually started out very well, with a strong track on a running rooster. When I thought the bird shook us, she found him, and I blew the opportunity.

I took Josey to a large CRP field, where it went bad quickly. She actually got lost, and I had to search for her. When I found her, she was sitting in the field shaking. For the next few hours she barley left my feet. As the afternoon went on, she started to gain some confidence, and she returned to hunting.

The reality for me is that Josey is not ready. I need to figure out how to help her get better.

The question is what level of training has she had to this point?

Just as a point of reference, when I start a pup at 7 weeks old, it takes 16-18 months of training two 10-30 minute sessions a day (the session time increases as the pup matures and learns how to train) to complete the program.

My pups get tons of birds during their training, but their first upland hunting experience after they complete force fetch/collar conditioning, usually around 12 months. This is done at a shooting preserve in mild weather rather than actually hunting during open season. The goal is to simulate hunting without all the difficulties and variables actual hunting presents to a dog, so the pup has a positive, fun, highly successful experience.

I have someone else do the shooting while I handle the pup, that is a hard rule. I prefer chukars rather than pheasants for this first learning experience, as a planted chukar normally will be exactly where it was placed for a considerable time period where a rooster will be up & moving in minutes. When the pup finds, flushes, and retrieves a bird to hand, it gets praised up like it just won the Nationals. Doesn't take long for the pup to figure out that hunting is the bomb.

By doing this on a shooting preserve where all my attention is on the pup, I largely control the variables. It allows me to instantly correct any issues (and there will be issues the first few go arounds), and insures the pup has an extremely positive & successful first hunting experience...

 

[walk213]

I know many here don't like bells, but in deep crp, when you can't see your dog at 10 yards, it will keep this from happening. I keep a bell on a snap swivel in a pocket in my coat for these parcels. A dog on a fresh scent can get away in no-time if you can't even tell it is happening. Hope you get that worked out. You might avoid that thick cover if you don't like bells or until you can keep the dog close. Some dogs just freeze up when they can't find you. You might have to "talk" to them so they know where you are in that cover...was just in one of those parcels yesterday. Lot of guys want to hunt 'silent", so bells and "talk" won't work for everyone. I would rather be silent, but I am not sure it matters, the birds know you are there....guessing no one has snuck-up on a wild pheasant while hunting. With season ending, you have the off-season to work with her.

Thank you for the insight. Like you, I was taught to be silent in the stalk. Thank goodness I purchased the DT Systems collar with location (complete mistake by me, but it worked out). I was able to sound the collar and find her. There were a ton of birds just 80 yards from our position. They were running and she got away from me. Her aunt (Echo) and I were in harmony from day 1. When she doesn't know where I am, she will jump up and take a look. Josey is my third gundog. This is a new experience for me, and I want to get it right.

 

[walk213]

I've idly wondered if I could put a bike flag on each member of the Crew...

I saw Randy Lack do that on his TV show. The issue I see is how the dog will navigate the fences we encounter....and we encounter a lot. The crotch on my hunting pants will testify.

 

[walk213]

The question is what level of training has she had to this point?

Just as a point of reference, when I start a pup at 7 weeks old, it takes 16-18 months of training two 10-30 minute sessions a day (the session time increases as the pup matures and learns how to train) to complete the program.

My pups get tons of birds during their training, but their first upland hunting experience after they complete force fetch/collar conditioning, usually around 12 months. This is done at a shooting preserve in mild weather rather than actually hunting during open season. The goal is to simulate hunting without all the difficulties and variables actual hunting presents to a dog, so the pup has a positive, fun, highly successful experience.

I have someone else do the shooting while I handle the pup, that is a hard rule. I prefer chukars rather than pheasants for this first learning experience, as a planted chukar normally will be exactly where it was placed for a considerable time period where a rooster will be up & moving in minutes. When the pup finds, flushes, and retrieves a bird to hand, it gets praised up like it just won the Nationals. Doesn't take long for the pup to figure out that hunting is the bomb.

By doing this on a shooting preserve where all my attention is on the pup, I largely control the variables. It allows me to instantly correct any issues (and there will be issues the first few go arounds), and insures the pup has an extremely positive & successful first hunting experience...

That is a valid question. Josey is Echo's (my 5 year old) neice. Josey was a gift to me by our breeder/trainer. It was a very kind gesture. There is a long story, but not worth the insight.

Josey was prov

 

[walk213]

Josey was trained for 8 weeks during the COVID lockdown. She went through the same program as Echo participated in. Unfortunately, we are in a far different spot at the moment. I am not an experienced dog trainer. I understand some of the basics, and I have been working on techniques learned from Standing Stone Kennels (YouTube). I realize that we have to hit the reverse button. My favorite game farm (20m from the house) closed down a couple of years back. There are other options that I will take advantage of once the upland season ends (end of the month). Here is what I want to work on:

-Here command - This issue had not surfaced at all during our training. She seemed to listen to me when I asked her to listen to me. This proved to be inconsitent in the field, and I am not sure why?
-E Collar - Despite being e-collar conditioned, Josey does not respond to any stimulation, and I have been primarily using the vibrate feature. I will need guidance on how to re-introduce her to the collar. I am not a handler that believes in hammering a dog to get what I need.
-Marking - I have no idea why she seemed clueless last week. Birds shot on the preserve she found quickly.
-Retrieving birds - This one has me confused. In the yard, we started from scratch. The plate drill for weeks. We then moved to a small bumper, then to a midsized bumper. I recently incorporated a large bumper. She has done well with all bumpers, so I introduced a frozen hen with the head and wings clipped off. Josey retrieved the frozen bird to hand every time. Stunningly, she stands over just killed birds and tries to decide what to do. She picks it up, then drops it. She will carry in a heel, then sit and hold. I am confused.

Thank you for your thoughts.