English cocker or springer spaniel

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Smilin Spaniels

New member
Hi all,
I currently have an English cocker spaniel. Although they are smaller I love the look and personality and they are little hunting machines. I've recently thought about adding another dog. Either a springer or another cocker. I was wondering if anyone with experience with both breeds can give me some insight as to if there are many differences between the breeds, other than the cockers being smaller.
Thanks
 
Hunting Spaniels

We have FBECS but I have hunted over both breeds for many years; both in the grouse woods all over the Northern Tier and Out West.

I prefer fieldbred Cockers in the grouse woods, but if I lived in the Dakotas, I'd have a good FBESS or better, a pair of Springers. Springers are bigger, faster and stronger than Cockers. But also, Cockers punch above their weight class.
 
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I think the biggest difference you'll find is ground coverage. ESSs being taller, and in most cases, bigger can cover a field better. They also seem to have a more distinct quartering pattern (the traditional windshield wiper pattern). Depends on the game you hunt and style you prefer.

But IMO, there is no better pheasant dog than an ESS.
 
Smilin Spaniels said:
Hi all,
I currently have an English cocker spaniel. Although they are smaller I love the look and personality and they are little hunting machines. I've recently thought about adding another dog. Either a springer or another cocker. I was wondering if anyone with experience with both breeds can give me some insight as to if there are many differences between the breeds, other than the cockers being smaller.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I agree with Natty. If you spend a lot of days hunting grouse in MN another Cocker makes a lot of sense and maybe justifies the trade off.

I love my Cocker but hunting multiple days in SD really wears him down. If multiple long trips west are in the cards a springer should be able to take on a bigger piece of the workload and allow for the Cocker to remain fresh and effective in more of a back-up role.
 
I have trained both. Judged both. Both have their place. An ESS for me. Cockers are harder to train in my opinion. They have a mind of their own. I find springers have a much greater desire to please and more brains. When you do get a cocker trained they do make nice dogs. I just find myself beating my head a bunch more working with cockers. A springer trained is absolutely as good as any cocker at any hunting. Grouse what have you. A much more versatile breed IMO. However I will have another cocker down the road. last one was a complete nut bag and we went our separate ways LOL.
 
I completely agree with Ken. Cockers have lower impulse control. They don't mean to piss you off & they fully intend to "do it right next time"- unless they don't. : ). Springers are more likely to look you in the eye & try to please you.

Most Cocker owners are drawn to the mischievous, fun loving nature of the little beasts. In many cases, the owners have some of these same tendencies themselves. A "well behaved Cocker" is a relative term but they are endearing and it's hard not to admire their heart.

You can compare the Springer to a 12 ga. & think of the Cocker as a 20. A Springer can do anything a Cocker can do and more. If a guy prefers a Cocker or a 20 ga. its because he enjoys some other aspect of the breed/gun that makes up for the shortcomings.

As for hunting abilities, I don't think there's any difference in the nose but the way a Cocker keeps his closer to the ground & hunts in a "cockery", bumble bee pattern keeps him in the same area longer while a Springer tends to run with his head up, using the wind to cover his beat in a single pass before moving on to fresh ground.

It's a little easier to keep up with a Cocker when you're in the kind of cover where you have to spin through briars or keep picking up your hat but a Springer can learn to hunt closer in thick stuff too so I don't think the difference is enough to worry about.

In more open country, a Springer sets a nicer pace to my eye. I've heard it said that you kill pheasants with your feet & a big running Springer covers more ground.
 
Grouse Dogs

Excellent analysis by Nimrod above. And he proves my point about why I prefer FBECS for grouse hunting, which we do 50+ days a year, in UP North MI, 'da UP and WI too. Thank you.

The pattern and pace of good field Cockers simply works better in the "thick and gnarly places" where 'ol ruff likes to hang out. They hunt to the gun better in the overgrown clearcuts, squeeze into and out of blowdowns etc, and generally keep in touch better in the grouse woods. Have hunted xxx days, over many years, gunning grouse over both field Cockers and Springers and have seen the differences in the grouse woods. Up Close and Personal. :cool:

Here are a couple of examples:

Exhibit A: Grouse Camp in Maine

This was a few years ago. A guy with a "Great" English Springer ,from Boston, was there too. He had a male ESS, black and white, who weighed 80#, had a coat like a sheepdog, and a gait like a Clydesdale draft horse. The dog didn't hunt a lick, simply trotted a few yards ahead of his master on the two track and kept looking back to make sure he didn't get lost. That guy hunted by himself the rest of the week.

Exhibit B: Grouse Camp in 'da UP last year

A hunting buddy and I make the trip every year. We were joined one day by a guy from WI with a FBESS. We heard at breakfast what a fantastic grouse dog this was. She was on the small side, almost all white, and skinny. Her name was "Lovely Lady". His wife named her.;)

The guy wanted badly to show us how great his dog was, so we let him put her down first. We went to a known cover, waaaaay out in the woods, a 15yo aspen cut and thick. He put a bell on her, TG. She took off like a rocket and soon her bell faded from hearing. The guy started yelling and screaming and running through the woods after his dog; "Lovely Lady, Lovely Lady, Lovely Lady,........" Shot the gun, several times, no "LL" showed up.

So our grouse hunt quickly became a "lost dog' hunt. No small matter, compounded by the known wolf pack in that area of 'da UP. :mad: She probably got into birds quickly and she chased them to ........... We had two trucks so we split up and started cruising the two tracks and few roads in the area. Happily, she was found, uninjured, a couple of hours later. The guy immediately left for home (I think he called his wife) :p

But we wasted a perfectly fine morning and a wonderful grouse cover on a bolter. :mad:

So I'll take hunting Cockers for hunting 'ol ruff anytime.




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A poorly trained dog is no comparison. I have 0 issue with my dogs working close in brush and snarly stuf;). Any dog will bolt if not trained. I have seen many a cocker break and "bolt" across the section and gone. A springer will do the same. And they can easily be trained to hunt the same. Just look at any british trial video out there on youtube. Not how I like my dogs to work. but it is a very good comparison of both breeds hunting exactly the same way in the woods. And how "both" can be and are in fact trained the same. Spot on Nim that's how I see it as well as every pro I know. I enjoy both breeds.
 
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Natty, you're right. A poorly trained dog is not fun to hunt with. But neither of those dogs reflect the breed. My young dog has already figured out how to shorten up in the grouse woods, and she's less than 2 years old. It wasn't all instinct. A lot had to do with exposure to cover and how I've worked with her.
 
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