All you Lab Guys

Flush 'Em Hard Rocky

Flush 'Em Hard Rocky

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So I have decided to break from the Springer breed and look at a lab. Now I am trying to decide between American, British or Pointing Lab. With the risk of starting a civil war, any suggestions? I am floored by the range of prices....everything from $400 to $1800 for a pup with good pedigree.
 
It's all personal preferance. That being said my labs are in the 70lb. range but my next me be a british lab (a friend of mine breeds them). I also have a pointing lab but I didn't train it nor do I want it to point (if it does point that's fine). The reason I like labs is they are a close working dog and that's how I train mine, pointing doesn't work well with this since the birds stay further out in front. Pointers are meant to roam around, find the birds, and point at them until you come over. Flushers stay close and get the birds up close to you. These are the general idea, there are exceptions to every rule. It all depends on how you like to hunt. Treat dogs like picking out a wife, meet the parents so you know what you are getting yourself into. Also th larger the lab the shorter the hunting life, I get 12-14 years out of mine and my friend gets around 8-9 years out of his 120+ pound labs. One last thing, I'm not a big fan of pedigree, every dog I have ever had has been bird nuts, I feel it's important to get them into birds as soon as possible. I would take a dog around the size and build that I am looking for before pedigree. Just my .02
 
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This maybe a stupid question, but what is the difference between American and British labs?
 
At this point I have both pointing and Flushing. The pointing dog points naturally and his father is a two time National Flushing champion. He points if birds sit till you tell him to flush or bird moves then he will bust their ass. The British Labs are generally stockier built and lower to the ground . American bred Labs for the most part are taller (not all) and racier built. Some say the British dogs have a calmer demeanor. I'm not completely sold on that. I have seen both good and bad in both. Labs are an amazing
animal and make a great hunting partner and most have never met a stranger.
Generally speaking you can't go wrong with a well bred well trained lab whether American, British or combination of both.
 
I have 2 pointing labs...I love them...mine are both black so early season warm days are hard on them. I have also owned German shorthairs...i love the closer range of my labs. The pointing is a nice plus. To get a pup out of a good blood line isnt cheap. Josie my 7 year old is out of "Baxter" at shooters point kennels in Paxton, IL and she was like $750.00...but worth every penny!
 
1STOUT has it about right in my mind. I also have a lab that points but do not really care if it does. I got my first one from a breeder who had one left over and just wanted it to go to a good home. I hunted behind his parents so I though what the heck. He has been everything I have wanted a pheasant dog to be. I studded him out to a friend who liked what he saw and got a pup out of the deal. He was born in June and I had him in the field in Nov. He also has worked out great. Neither of them have "bloodlines" worthy of discussion. But they have seen a lot of birds. I agree that most labs have hunt in them they just need to get exposed to birds to become good. Well that's my nickle.
 
Pedigree is more important only if you are planning on competing in hunt test or field trials. What's more important IMO is to get a pup whose sire/dam are avid hunters. You'll get a meat dog you'll be very happy hunting with.

I have a highly bred lab that was professionally trained etc....
He's almost too much for me. My meat dog is a much more pleasant hunting companion.

I am a purist. I don't mess with dogs bred to be pointing labs. My lab points at times, when he wants to.

lefty
 
Lefty I disagree somewhat with the importance of petigree but I am with you 100% on labs not pointing. Labs as a breed are not pointers and should not be trained to be. Could be wrong, but thats my thought anyway.
 
My experience has shown me that birds typically don't hold good unless they 50+ yards away from people, labs typically are trained and like to work close. To train and expect a lab to point an then train them to work close is asking too much and frustrating for the dog. You need to prioritize 1 or the other, I prefer to have them close and if they point fine. Weather conditions seem to dictate if the bird will hold when in close range. If you have a pointing dog that goes on point say 100 yards away the dog will "hold" the bird and allow you to walk up for the shot. They are just 2 different hunting styles and every dog and hunter will still do things the way they like. It all comes down to personal preference. The thing I don't like is when someone tries to get/train their dog to do something that it can't or won't do, ie a friend of mine has a springer (I think) that likes to run way out in front and point out the bird and hold it, the entire time he is yelling the dogs name to get it to stay closer. When I told him to ease up on the dog and just let it work he didn't like that so much (we're good enough friends that it's ok, normally I don't tell someone how to hunt), I also suggested he get a lab:)
 
From my experience with a less than ideal model an extremely important factor is physical conformation in an upland lab. My next lab will come from a breeder who breeds smaller, athletic, thin ("single") coated dogs that can work longer and work in warmer weather. Also the smaller more athletic dog will tend to be less susceptible to late in life joint & hip issues.

The area of physical conformation is IMO where many of the traditional waterfowl type labs and British labs fall short in the uplands. Although I would never hunt them as a pointer the pointing lab guys are likely ahead of the curve in this area. I also hear of some western breeders who are developing upland labs that fit this profile.

DB
 
I agree with DB. Small athletic labs are what I look for in a uplands. I have seen to many big labs run out of steam. There seems to be a breeder for any kind of lab you could want today although I am not sure that is a good thing:confused:
 
IMO 60lb would be about the biggest I like to see in the uplands. Many labs would do much better if owners would condition them more often and feed them less.
 
Flush 'Em Hard Rocky said:
When you guys speak of thinner more atheltic labs., is that a 60lb. lab, and 80 lb. lab?
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Weight and conditioning is a pretty good indicator and I think sub 70lb males and sub 55lb females are a good start but I'd still put the physical conformation first. I can see ribs on my male but because he is barrel chested and blocky headed he still weighs 80lbs. That front end mass and thin hind quarters were ultimately his downfall when it comes to overall endurance and physical issues later in life.

I'd look for parents who are well proportioned and athletically built from head to tail. If they are a little thick and muscular that is probably OK as long as they are balanced and well conditioned. IMO they don't need to look like an EP. One of the positives of a lab is there willingness and ability to plow through the thick stuff.
 
I guess I have to respectfully disagree with a lot of guys who say big dogs don't last. I live and hunt in SD and hunt a lot. I have acccess to great areas and my dogs are hunted hard all season. Usually waterfowl in mornings and pheasants in afternoons. I have a 105 lb lab that hunts pretty hard and has no quit. As a matter of fact my 64 lb lab has a hard time keeping up. Now I think this may be due to what type of cover you are hunting. We cover a ton of cattails and thicker brush where the big boys plows his way through. I think my smaller one wears out quicker fighting through that stuff. Although I think my smaller one might be a bit better in the crp??
So, in my opinion it depends a lot on cover and definitely on the shape of your animal. I keep mine conditioned pretty well all year and as mentioned they hunt hard during the season and are very well conditoned. Keep them in shape and I'm not too sure size will matter too much. (note: I prefer the 80 lb range)
 
Have you always had bigger labs? How do they hold up when they get around 10-12 years old? My experience has been that age hits them a lot harder than my smaller labs. A friend of mine breeds chesapeakes and they are typically done hunting by around 9 or 10 as well. I'm interested in what you have to say because as you stated you condition your dogs better than most. Can you get more years out of the larger labs if they are continually conditioned better (I don't know)? I also work my dogs year round and keep them at the proper weight but most people don't. Thanks

Michael
 
1stout said:
My experience has been that age hits them a lot harder than my smaller labs.
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Not aging gracefully is where I saw the downside with my bigger lab. He was 85 lbs and an all out maniac the first five seasons. By age six joint stiffness and arthritis started to creep in and performance visibly suffered. At 8 we had an in-season CCL tear that compounded things. By age 10 the drive was still very much there but the body could only do so much.

My younger female is the physical ideal for the uplands. I expect her to be good to go well past 10 years. Just wish she had the big boy's "want to".
 
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1stout said:
Have you always had bigger labs? How do they hold up when they get around 10-12 years old? My experience has been that age hits them a lot harder than my smaller labs. A friend of mine breeds chesapeakes and they are typically done hunting by around 9 or 10 as well. I'm interested in what you have to say because as you stated you condition your dogs better than most. Can you get more years out of the larger labs if they are continually conditioned better (I don't know)? I also work my dogs year round and keep them at the proper weight but most people don't. Thanks

Michael
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Well that is a good point. I have had several dogs now and most were in the standard range. Had one though that was 90lbs and had a lot of go until about twelve years when his body started to give a bit. This big boy I have now...I guess I'll see. I just have to believe that with proper weight managment and diet/exercise he'll do well into his late years. Again he is 105lbs but not fat at all. Vet said very proportionate (sp). I think a lot of times dogs that give out early are ones that are only hunted during the season. They aren't used to working out. I hate to say this and don't want to be bashed by this but my old vet said that outside dogs tend to age better than inside dogs. They are used to climate changes, they pace and move more where as house dogs lay around more and can add weight easier due to inactivity. Now some guys will say they run their dogs everyday. But so do guys with outside dogs-yet the outside dogs pace etc all day too. NOT trying to start a fight just passing on another view from my old timer vet.
I sure hope my big one lasts cuz he is a dandy...but I will be aware of the possibility of aging early.
 
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I guess we have a lot variables involved when hunting big labs vs. small labs. Obviously if your dog is not in good condition it is going to run into problems with endurance. If your dog is has excess weight youâ??ll have problems. Genetics play a larger role in this then we think. I have run a few marathons and it never ceases to amaze me all the shapes and sizes and where they finish. Yet smaller is still better if you are running a marathon as long as no cattail sloughs are involved :). The weather affects endurance. Terrain influences the dog. The style of hunting you do affects the endurance. If you hunt small tracks of land and drive 15 minutes to the next spot vs. hunting large tracks of land that you can walk for hours. Are you hunting huge cattail sloughs or are you hitting the smaller cattail sloughs or shelterbelts. Do you like your dog to plow a path for you in snow choked cattails or do you like your dog to weave through underneath the cattails? Are you physically in shape? Do you walk fast or slow? Do you walk the edge of cattails or in them? Are you a good shot and limit out on just a few flushes or does it take few more :( If you missed a few birds maybe your dog decided they should slow up a little because they could be hunting a long time with the way this guy shoots :eek:

I guess I was rambling there a bit but there are so many variables and we all have our idea of what we like best. I guess I should eat comment about there being a breeder for ever kind of lab and that it might not be a good thing aside from the hip dysphasia concerns in bigger labs.

Like DB referred to earlier most labs are eager to please and have lots of drive so if we can keep them in good shape it doesnâ??t matter what size they are. As for me, I still like my labs on the small side :thumbsup:
 
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