Steel/bismuth for pheasants

CluckNut said:
Never understood the issue with going away shots, they present the largest target area for vital hits. Only a problem if you are shooting behind.
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Rising going away is an easy kill, you have the head, neck, backbone. Level and going away you have backbone and thats about it as the head is protected by the backbone and the vitals are protected by the thighs. A level going away bird is typically a long shot as well.

Oncoming is the easiest to hit vitals, as everything is exposed.. but how often do you see that.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
Increasing 1 shot size decreases pellet count. If you bump up the payload to match pellet count then the recoil is the same as bumping velocity.
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Depends how much you have to increase payload to get same pellet count. That'll vary based on shot size. But velocity is the driving factor that determines recoil energy, as energy increases/decreases by the SQUARE of the change in velocity. Mass (payload) isn't squared in the calc.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
It's not very substantial, but it is there. While faster things slow down faster a 1600 fps vs 1300 fps (23%) will still be 10-15% faster time on target. I don't have my time in flight calculator so I don't have exact numbers but I would rather have that boost than not. Again, depends on pattern though.
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If that boost gives you confidence then go for it. In real world application hunting wild pheasants the difference is about the size of a gnat's whisker. Look at the common shot angles and distances of your shots.
 
Interesting numbers on the KPY. Ive never messed with 1.75" much as we use 1.5" for ducks and that is what I have always considered good for pheasant as well. If 1.75" is more in line with real world penetration/lethality then that explains why guys struggle so much with clean kills and steel shot.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Depends how much you have to increase payload to get same pellet count. That'll vary based on shot size. But velocity is the driving factor that determines recoil energy, as energy increases/decreases by the SQUARE of the change in velocity. Mass (payload) isn't squared in the calc.
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It actually does get squared. Do a 1 ounce load and 2 ounce load of anything in your calculator and it does 4 times the recoil. Same if you do 1000 vs 2000 fps.

The reason is that momentum is transferred mass times velocity into the gun. Which the gun then has energy that is Velocity squared, but the transferred was each linear.
 
KEOutdoors said:
Interesting numbers on the KPY. Ive never messed with 1.75" much as we use 1.5" for ducks and that is what I have always considered good for pheasant as well. If 1.75" is more in line with real world penetration/lethality then that explains why guys struggle so much with clean kills and steel shot.
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Yeah I had 1.5 " originally, but when shooting pheasant, it just wasn't doing as well as I thought it should. The 1.75" feels better and does show why steel is much harder. Granted we are trying to put exact numbers to something that has soo many variables on a shot.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Depends how much you have to increase payload to get same pellet count. That'll vary based on shot size. But velocity is the driving factor that determines recoil energy, as energy increases/decreases by the SQUARE of the change in velocity. Mass (payload) isn't squared in the calc.
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Is that actual recoil or perceived recoil. I ran a box of hypersteels when they first came out. Never again, it felt like I’d been kicked by a mule😂
 
Bob Peters said:
If that boost gives you confidence then go for it. In real world application hunting wild pheasants the difference is about the size of a gnat's whisker. Look at the common shot angles and distances of your shots.
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I do agree I get too held up on a few % differences, when hunting has way way more variables just on shot opportunity. But I can do a lot of theoretical analysis from home/ year round. Can't just go run different loads and shoot tons of pheasants with each. although I would love to.
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
Never again, it felt like I’d been kicked by a mule
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I know that feeling. I put some 3 inch magnums through my Montrefeltro once and it felt like the mule kicked me right in the face. Nothing but 2 3/4 inchers in that shotgun after those. I can't even imagine what a turkey load would do. Probably knock me backwards with the recoil.
 
gimruis said:
I know that feeling. I put some 3 inch magnums through my Montrefeltro once and it felt like the mule kicked me right in the face. Nothing but 2 3/4 inchers in that shotgun after those. I can't even imagine what a turkey load would do. Probably knock me backwards with the recoil.
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I've been on a journey of increasing success rates and was trying some 1600 1 5/8 ounce loads. Very quickly realize its not the power of the shell that determines if you kill it. Even if you think you can handle 3 shots a day, there's no way you aren't developing some flinch recoil to them.
 
You guys keep talking recoil, do you really notice it while hunting? I will be honest I dont feel a thing when looking down the barrel at a rooster and pulling the trigger. Never noticed it turkey hunting either, with 3.5" 2.25oz loads. Noticed it at the patterning board enough!

Barrel jump is what gets me, on followup shots.
 
gimruis said:
YES lol

Not so much during the shot, but afterwards. Especially in the cheek.

Those lightweight shotguns are not good combo with magnum shells.
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Suppose a bruised cheek is a good thing to a point! Rather a bruised cheek than wore out legs and no birds 😂
 
KEOutdoors said:
You guys keep talking recoil, do you really notice it while hunting? I will be honest I dont feel a thing when looking down the barrel at a rooster and pulling the trigger. Never noticed it turkey hunting either, with 3.5" 2.25oz loads. Noticed it at the patterning board enough!

Barrel jump is what gets me, on followup shots.
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I have depending on what I am shooting. Still figuring out what the relationship between shooting and recoil is though. Obviously possible to go too high, but even moderate levels might be making for a worse shot. Your body naturally tightens up on the shot, so have even less recoil might decrease that.

Although yes, I am running very lightweight guns. A 6lb guns has 50% more recoil than a 9 lb gun. That can be substantial. Semi autos also help ton to reduce the impulse, which means it pushes less sharply.
 
KEOutdoors said:
What are the exact numbers to back up that claim of 6-7 yards? What shot size is that for and what are you using for required penetration?

6-7 yards is typical a whole shot size difference so why do you say it like that is nothing?... 5 yards per size is the general rule for steel shot. 4s to 35, 3s to 40, 2s to 45. Adding 7 yards by increasing velocity to standard numbers from slow shells seems like a no brainer obvious choice.

Hitting a bird with a full pattern of low energy shot isnt the answer, if it was we would all be shooting steel 5s and 6s and lead 7.5s.
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I was looking at 3s & 1.5" penetration. Going from 1300 to 1550 increased range 6.6 yds, whereas at 1300, going to 2s gains you 7.6 yds.

I didn't act like 6-7 yds is nothing. I'm all for an extra 6-7 yds. I just don't want to blow my pattern out to get it. The funny thing is, as you know, most factory steel loads are considerably faster than 1300. So usually, when someone considers switching to a 1600 fps load, the jump in velocity might actually only be 150-200 fps, making the increase in range only 3-5 yds, when simply going 1 size bigger could gain you almost twice that.

I said nothing about shooting tiny, low energy shot. Quite the opposite, in fact. But at some point, each pellet reaches a velocity where its energy density (energy per cross sectional area) is insufficient to penetrate. Thus, we're not shooting huge, slow moving shot. Consider a bowling ball thrown at a pheasant. Gets out there, still has a ton of energy, but insufficient energy density to penetrate. Not to mention it probably has to travel in an arc.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
I do agree I get too held up on a few % differences, when hunting has way way more variables just on shot opportunity. But I can do a lot of theoretical analysis from home/ year round. Can't just go run different loads and shoot tons of pheasants with each. although I would love to.
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And this is how we know the season's over. Fun stuff to think about. Love me some numbers, especially when they revolve around pheasants.
 
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