springer points

C

cockrocker

New member
quick question to the springer guys. My 2yr old "buddy" has turned into an awesome quail and pheasant flushing machine and I can only imagine what the next few years will bring when he matures out a bit and comes into his prime. He is very easy to read in the field and I am quickly learning to not doubt him for a second...he is really amazing me and I think our training time together is paying huge dividends. Lately when we find some tighter holding quail, as he zeros in on the location of birds, he will at times freeze up as almost going on point....look into the sage and then jump in. Fast forward to this afternoon and he got a bit birdy, worked the scent a bit and froze up hard at a blown over thicket of Russian olive, front leg up....just plain frozen up on point...crazy stuff. I told him with some enthusiasm..."get em" he kind of twitched a bit stayed stiff until the second command to get em and then he busted in and out came a double. got one whiffed one oh well. anybody else have a springer that showed a flash of pointer at times?
 
Nope. I like my springers to flush hard without hesitation. I think that would be a disqualifying fault in a trial (FCspringer correct me if I'm wrong).

But keep in mind why flushing dogs are effective. When a spaniel pushes hard into warm scent, after zigzagging through cover, it forces the bird into the air. It usually is at a time the bird does not want to fly. When that happens, the bird is simply reacting, not thinking, and that can lead to a bird making a mistake.

I've watched that happen even with my young spaniel (18 months) I currently have. She pushed hard into a grouse, forcing it to fly. It flew up, hit brush too thick to fly through, and the bird to flew towards me, of all places. Boom! The bird died. It all resulted from a hard flush that took away all other options for the bird.

Maybe your dog was confused by the scent somehow?
 
I have had 8 retrievers and at some point they have all done this. Sometimes they see the bird and lock up. I think they are waiting for the bird to move or something?
 
GPowers said:
I have had 8 retrievers and at some point they have all done this. Sometimes they see the bird and lock up. I think they are waiting for the bird to move or something?
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yeah I think it is just what you said. being as have my dogs for hunting and not winning ribbons I really don't mind what he did and being as young as he is I don't mind. trust me as he is a hard flusher and I don't think brick walls could stop this guy from going where he wants. We train everything from thick cattails to sagebrush to Russian olive thickets so he is becoming a well rounded dog.
 
A hard flush isn't for winning ribbons, it's for producing birds quickly and efficiently. I'm not sure why you asked about this though, based on your response. Reassurance? Or maybe I've misinterpreted the tone of your response? But it seems you don't really care how he hunts as long as you get birds in your bag (that's my inference).
 
maybe he was confused by the scent...either way bird went up, bird went down hard, end game mission accomplished.The reason I asked to see if anybody else has seen this in their dogs nothing more than a conversation started. My springer is a hard charging hard flushing dog and no I really have no problem with what I have seen, I thought it was pretty cool actually. The last thing I want personally is a pointer, never had one never will even though I have hunted over a few brilliant pointers, just not my thing. not looking for any type of reassurance whatever that means and yes as long as I get birds in the bag he could jump around like a banshee singing yankee f'n doodle dandy if it works. Sometimes in life it is the small imperfections from the norm that create the beauty of the experience.
It was you who brought up the issue of disqualification in a trial not me so that's what the ribbon comment was about. Maybe I interpreted your response incorrectly. What you described about your dog pushing the bird into the thick cover making it fly toward you doesn't really sound all that unusual though as that happens quite a lot in the type of cover I hunt for quail, not so much for pheasant but yes that I could see happen a lot during grouse season based on the cover hunted. I have had quail this season that I could have netted as they flew by they were so close because of the limited escape they had
 
Cool. Sounds like you're having fun. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum though... I like bagging birds, but I hunt birds for the dog work. If I knock 'em down, that's icing on the cake. But to each his own.
 
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I had to laugh when I saw this. Meet Bodie, aka; Blue Smoke Bodacious. Bodie developed this very trait 2 or 3 years ago. We competition hunt so it was great he was giving me extra time to prepare for the shot. Maybe he was just tired of me not knocking them dead and sending him on long retrieves. Admittedly in a field trial it's a DQ but in real life it's a good thing. Think about springers for a minute. Bodie is my 6th. I got my 1st in 1980 and have always had at least one, sometimes 3, not counting puppies. The hardest thing, for me anyway, to get a springer to do is stay in range- control their drive. IMHO you will bag more birds than you lose with your dog. Just play the cards you're dealt. Bodie is the current US Bird Dog Association Western States National Champion.

enjoy-
 
Calisdad said:
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I had to laugh when I saw this. Meet Bodie, aka; Blue Smoke Bodacious. Bodie developed this very trait 2 or 3 years ago. We competition hunt so it was great he was giving me extra time to prepare for the shot. Maybe he was just tired of me not knocking them dead and sending him on long retrieves. Admittedly in a field trial it's a DQ but in real life it's a good thing. Think about springers for a minute. Bodie is my 6th. I got my 1st in 1980 and have always had at least one, sometimes 3, not counting puppies. The hardest thing, for me anyway, to get a springer to do is stay in range- control their drive. IMHO you will bag more birds than you lose with your dog. Just play the cards you're dealt. Bodie is the current US Bird Dog Association Western States National Champion.

enjoy-
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I figure there are a lot more dogs that do this than a purist would like to admit. I'm on my fourth springer now, got my first as a senior in high school in 83....learned a lot from that dog!! Buddy the dog I have now is incredible bar none, and this trait that he has shown a couple times is awesome to me and I will use it to my advantage. He hasn't done this on pheasant though, only quail and in mostly sage areas so it seems as he is racing around picking up the scent of the runners and just rapidly gets a snout full of bird at ground zero and Bam...stops/locks/ and is waiting for the bird to make its move...he almost caught one the other day as it barely made it out of the other side of the bush. sounds like you know the springer game well and I wish you and Bodie luck in your hunting
 
Do you think that it's the cover (you mentioned sage) that inhibits his flush? Maybe he got beat up really badly by it once and decided not to go back in?

And I'm sure you're right that it happens with a number of springers, but if I was a breeder and I had a dog form this as a consistent habit, he would get the snip and then be sold to a hunting household.
 
Ok so i own a dog you would reject. Lucky me. Your opinion is obvious so no reason to keep posting your disapproval as my next responses you might not like.
 
Relax dude. I'm not criticizing you or your dog. I'm stating my opinion on what I like. You can take that personally, and respond emotionally, or you can accept that opinions and preferences vary.

I believe you and your dog will have fun out there and that's the main point for everyone. What constitutes as fun is also an opinion. For example, I also like rock climbing and rappelling. It's fun. Others say it's crazy and dangerous, and that's okay (plus there's a little truth to that).
 
JP developed the same (bad) habit while hunting Gambel's quail in the Mojave desert, charging hard into cholla gets painful fast, and it happens now and then with tight sitting birds. Won't win him any trials but he's a good meat dog none the less.:cheers:
 
Different likes for different folks.

If I understand what you're talking about, it is one of the most delightful parts of hunting with Mick, the ESS for me.

He'll be working a small section of cover hard, seemingly fast on the trail of a pheasant, back and forth, closer and further away, and then...he'll stop, head erect, legs stiff, ears perked, and just look over the cover as if to say "OK, just where in the HECK did that bird-thing go? It was here a second ago."

His pause will only be a few seconds, and back he'll go, finally flushing the artful dodger pheasant.

I love it each time it happens, which is not often.

Dogs is fun.:D
 
Thanks cockrocker, we do have our fun. Disregard the noise, some people feel there's is the only opinion that matters. Some 'purists' forget which side their bread is buttered on and treat dogs like chattel. Where would they be if there was nobody to buy their dogs?

I 'train' everyday in that I never leave the house with my dogs without a whistle. If they wander out of gun range they get brought back, every time. It's not something that is ever finished. Giving them their space just keeps their spirit alive.

Don't worry if they catch birds either. He just saved you a shell. Bodie caught 6 wild quail last year. And he's not even my best hunter.

enjoy-
 
Calisdad said:
Thanks cockrocker, we do have our fun. Disregard the noise, some people feel there's is the only opinion that matters. Some 'purists' forget which side their bread is buttered on and treat dogs like chattel. Where would they be if there was nobody to buy their dogs?
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I hope this is not in reference to me Calisdad. I never said my opinion was right or the only one, but I did state it is MY opinion. I also acknowledged everyone can have their opinions, and that as long as we're having fun with the dogs, that's what matters.
 
Look at that! Every one agrees: Dogs is fun.

I love it when folks come together and allow for the individual differences they may have.

Warms my old heart, it does.

:thumbsup:
 
Kismet said:
Different likes for different folks.

If I understand what you're talking about, it is one of the most delightful parts of hunting with Mick, the ESS for me.

He'll be working a small section of cover hard, seemingly fast on the trail of a pheasant, back and forth, closer and further away, and then...he'll stop, head erect, legs stiff, ears perked, and just look over the cover as if to say "OK, just where in the HECK did that bird-thing go? It was here a second ago."

His pause will only be a few seconds, and back he'll go, finally flushing the artful dodger pheasant.

I love it each time it happens, which is not often.

Dogs is fun.:D
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That is exactly to a T what my dog does. you can actually see the intense look in their eyes also. it's pretty cool. My first springer "moose" back in 81 took it a step further and when the bird was running hard and the bird should be getting up he would start a high pitched bark that unnverved a few roosters and made us laugh a lot as it was 100% sure a bid was about to get up. Obviously not what a field trial crowd would like to see but in the real life application of hunting it sure was amusing to say the least.

we got 3 quail today but I cant seem to upload any pics. going after pheasant tomorrow with my dad so we'll see how that goes, he's 77 and not moving as fast but I got a private spot the guy said only got hunted last year twice and he has seen a few roosters lately and a whack of huns near his wheat that doubled in size this year he said.
 
Springers

I hunted over a Springer for 13 seasons. He had the heart of a Storm trooper. He would oft times hesitate very briefly just before driving in for a hard flush. He bagged several wild roosters in South Dkaota no shots fired so don't doubt his hard flush skills. I really liked the extra 1/2 second or so to "be ready" for the shot.
 
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