So,..About Quail?

Rusty Trigger

Rusty Trigger

Member
The latest thread about quail has got me thinking a little. I am not a quail hunter in a sense that they are not the 1st pursued bird in my hunts. Always been a "bonus" bird as was mentioned by others. I have gained more knowledge from the previous quail post and it does help to educate others. Take what you will from those posts and apply to how you see yourself as a hunter in the grand scheme of things. Seems to be two thoughts on the subject…one that hunter pressure has not significant impact on quail and the other is that small coveys don’t survive. Pretty big difference in opinion.

I am not sure if a case study has been done on hunter pressure on public ground (WIHA) after a severe change in habit/weather. I would have to think hunter pressure is a very real issue with quail densities on those acres, and those around it. Areas that have few acres probably don’t see much effect. I would also guess that most hunters utilize the WIHA program. I believe that small coveys will not have a great chance to survive in harsh conditions. I would hope that a States Game Department would look closely on the overall management of their resources and adjust season dates and bag limits to best manage their resources, as they do with ducks, doves and other game.
 
The post was not directed at any individual. The comment about it is the habitat stupid is what we all already know.
Sorry if I offended any of you.
 
Good post of the report of the test surveys. The report had some great info. It is understod that habit is vital to any speices. The immigration and emmigration of quail I found to be really interesting. I will have to read the report several more times to really understand all the data that was presented. But first glance, it seems to report that the fragamented landscape as found in Kansas and the hunter pressure has an effect on the long term population.

"Consequently,
managers should recognize that harvest
can significantly lower spring northern bobwhite
breeding densities. One way to reduce harvest
effects is to assure that harvest timing occurs in
early winter and hunting season length is minimized
(Kokko 2001). Second, managers should
promote an increased quantity of winter useable
space with sufficient connectivity to reduce predation.
Because coveys actively move to rebuild
covey size, managers should be mindful that fragmentation
of bobwhite landscapes could lead to
increased local extinction (Roseberry 1993,
Guthery et al. 2000) and affect ingress to offset
mortality (Guthery 2002:101–102)."
 
I am still of the opinion that moving the quail opener back one week from the pheasant opener would be beneficial to the 'quail resource', especially in western Kansas and would not adversely affect the the State of Kansas' 'hunter's dollars in the economy resource'. Just my two cents.
 
I thought the report had a lot of good information such as that quoted.

It does go against the old standby that hunting has no effect on population.

My guess would be "hunting has no affect" applied many decades ago under different land use structures.
 
Hedge rows in SEK were a haven for quail back 40 yrs ago. Farmers have all but eliminated them to farm more land. Then it seems SEK became over ran with fescue. Grasslands dissappeared along with quail and the prairie chicken. Prairie chickens numbers became unhuntable in the mid-late 80's in Cherokee, Crawford and surrounding counties. I am sure chemicals used for bugs and weeds had an impact as well.
 
Quail hunting does effect population if the pressure is causes mortality above a certain level. I am not sure what that level is right off hand, and I'm not even sure there is an exact percentage. But it will have an effect if overharvest is an issue.

I worked with the people at FWCC during my undergrad years on the study discussed at the link below. I grew up hunting that place. It went from a 9600 bird harvest in 1976, to increased hunter numbers in the early 80s, to consistently declining harvest numbers ever since. I did quite a bit of radio telemetry work and bird trapping and banding for the study. UF and Tall Timbers were involved as well. The full study report is published in a journal but you have to pay for that.

http://news.ufl.edu/2010/09/28/quail-2/

BTW, I live in Kansas now.
 
Bottom line: hunting can substantially impact quail populations year to year, at least in the study area, east central Kansas.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Hedge rows in SEK were a haven for quail back 40 yrs ago. Farmers have all but eliminated them to farm more land. Then it seems SEK became over ran with fescue. Grasslands dissappeared along with quail and the prairie chicken. Prairie chickens numbers became unhuntable in the mid-late 80's in Cherokee, Crawford and surrounding counties. I am sure chemicals used for bugs and weeds had an impact as well.
Click to expand...

The hedgerows 40 yrs ago were shrubby cover and provided ideal shelter from predation for the quail.

Fescue is BAD. Drive through MO and you can see the damage.

People tell me "I'm just going to wait until the quail come back to hunt again" -- good point but they won't just come back. Pushing out those old fencerows (I'm referring to the tall timber) is a good idea as long as they replace with shrubby cover or edge feather and create those woody getaways for the small birds.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Hedge rows in SEK were a haven for quail back 40 yrs ago. Farmers have all but eliminated them to farm more land. Then it seems SEK became over ran with fescue. Grasslands dissappeared along with quail and the prairie chicken. Prairie chickens numbers became unhuntable in the mid-late 80's in Cherokee, Crawford and surrounding counties. I am sure chemicals used for bugs and weeds had an impact as well.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think it has been a combination of loss of habitat, change of habitat, and the chemical killing of all pests and weeds. Back in the 70's, Westphalia was my destination for chickens. Shot many in the fields around there. The quail hunting used to be phenomenal. It took longer to drive down, then it did to limit. Back then there were a ton of quail. I never thought it would get like this.
 
Don't forget increased predation. mammilian and avian.

There is a hawk on nearly every fencepost in KS. Most don't realize that quail populations boomed during the DDT years when avian predator numbers were very low. As they recovered during the late 70s and 80s quail declined and continue to do so.

Also, no one kills coons, foxes, opossums, skunks, etc like they used to. No fur value, no interest? That means more nests lost to predation.

Futhermore, farming practices also cause increased nest predation because when a strip here and there is all the nesting cover available, then that is where they will nest. Guess where the predtors travel. Yep, those same small strips of cover. Conversly, in large grassland expanses it is less likely that a predator will find the nest.

Peak hatch occurs in late mid to late June. It makes me want to scream when I see hay being cut and baled in early and mid-june. All those nests, gone.
Like has been said already many factors are in play, and at times all of them seem to be detremental to the bobwhite.
 
Last edited:
M. R. Byrd said:
I am still of the opinion that moving the quail opener back one week from the pheasant opener would be beneficial to the 'quail resource', especially in western Kansas and would not adversely affect the the State of Kansas' 'hunter's dollars in the economy resource'. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

I could not agree more Mr. Maynard. I think the majority of opening weekend only hunters are trying to limit out. Not all, but a lot. A lot of Non Residents come on opening weekend and it would be my guess that a lot of them don't do any research as far as quail populations, and just blast away. That is another reason I absolutely love this forum, is it really can educate a lot of people. And sometimes make me pee my pants laughing so hard, but seriously, my idea of closing the season for one year will never catch on, so yea, I think moving it back a week or maybe two, would definitely help.
 
sgtD said:
Don't forget increased predation. mammilian and avian.

There is a hawk on nearly every fencepost in KS. Most don't realize that quail populations boomed during the DDT years when avian predator numbers were very low. As they recovered during the late 70s and 80s quail declined and continue to do so.

Also, no one kills coons, foxes, opossums, skunks, etc like they used to. No fur value, no interest? That means more nests lost to predation.

Futhermore, farming practices also cause increased nest predation because when a strip here and there is all the nesting cover available, then that is where they will nest. Guess where the predtors travel. Yep, those same small strips of cover. Conversly, in large grassland expanses it is less likely that a predator will find the nest.

Peak hatch occurs in late mid to late June. It makes me want to scream when I see hay being cut and baled in early and mid-june. All those nests, gone.
Like has been said already many factors are in play, and at times all of them seem to be detremental to the bobwhite.
Click to expand...

That is another reason I LOVE the WIHA program. When it is allowed to grow up wild. That help soooo much. I just WISH our state would do something like that.
 
The quail hunting where I am from in east central Kansas is better this year than the last several. That said its not up to what it was 10 years ago. I have been out 3 times and limited all three in a couple hours. I have seen around 4 or 5 coveys each time. I don't think its the cover so much in this area, as I know on our farm the cover is actually better than it was 20 years ago, but the low fur prices have caused the predator population to explode. All of the extra predators are really hard on nesting quail. I think the reason the numbers are up this year, is because we didn't get the flooding spring rains we have the past several years in a row.

On another note, I saw 4 coveys on my farm south of Dighton and all four were really nice coveys. I didn't shoot any instead saving them for when I'm out there with my sons. I know this isn't typically quail country, but this particular farm has 2 half mile wind breaks on it. I ran the windmill all summer so I guess the birds were going to it for water. All 4 coveys were within a quarter mile of the windmill. I also limited out on roosters on this farm Saturday and Sunday of opening weekend. There are a lot of pheasants left there, so hopefully when my sons and I go back we will have a nice mixed bag hunt.
 
sgtD said:
Don't forget increased predation. mammilian and avian.

There is a hawk on nearly every fencepost in KS. Most don't realize that quail populations boomed during the DDT years when avian predator numbers were very low. As they recovered during the late 70s and 80s quail declined and continue to do so.

Also, no one kills coons, foxes, opossums, skunks, etc like they used to. No fur value, no interest? That means more nests lost to predation.

Futhermore, farming practices also cause increased nest predation because when a strip here and there is all the nesting cover available, then that is where they will nest. Guess where the predtors travel. Yep, those same small strips of cover. Conversly, in large grassland expanses it is less likely that a predator will find the nest.

Peak hatch occurs in late mid to late June. It makes me want to scream when I see hay being cut and baled in early and mid-june. All those nests, gone.
Like has been said already many factors are in play, and at times all of them seem to be detremental to the bobwhite.
Click to expand...

Don't forget stray and ferel cats. I try to shoot everyone I see.
 
Did you find 4-5 different covies each time? At different locations? 'Cause that would be AWESOME for your area.

Have you been doing habitat work on your farm? Have you done any covey counting or whistle counts? That could be some awesome information to pass along to your local biologist/wildlife manager to see what is working and what is not.

I use my in-laws as an example a lot. They do not realize what has happened to their little farm that used to hold so many quail 30 years ago. It is the same way I don't see myself getting fat or bald, it is because it has happened over many years and is a gradual process. But that acreage has changed so much and the farming practices have become so clean it leaves very little cover for the birds.

I've heard a story that a possum will not only ruin a nest, but kill the quail on the nest. Anyone else heard that? I think critter control does not get near the airtime it needs.
 
I found 4 to 5 different coveys each time out. I will rarely ever hunt the same covey more than two times. My brother, dad and I own 7000 acres that we farm here and I keep notes throughout the year on where the birds are at. I'm pretty sure I could find 10 or 15 coveys in a full day if I hunted that long. When the quail hunting was really good 15 or 20 years ago, it was nothing to find 5 or 6 coveys on one quarter section. We had a much better hatch this year than the last several. In 2007 we had 25 inches of rain in 3 days the first part of July. This flood decimated the quail and they are just now started to recover. I have heard a lot more gunshots this year while deer hunting and farming, and I have also seen a lot more hunters.
 
fsentkilr said:
I found 4 to 5 different coveys each time out. I will rarely ever hunt the same covey more than two times. My brother, dad and I own 7000 acres that we farm here and I keep notes throughout the year on where the birds are at. I'm pretty sure I could find 10 or 15 coveys in a full day if I hunted that long. When the quail hunting was really good 15 or 20 years ago, it was nothing to find 5 or 6 coveys on one quarter section. We had a much better hatch this year than the last several. In 2007 we had 25 inches of rain in 3 days the first part of July. This flood decimated the quail and they are just now started to recover. I have heard a lot more gunshots this year while deer hunting and farming, and I have also seen a lot more hunters.
Click to expand...


Thats great to hear, though the farming practices there I think still play a pretty big role and the natural maturation of the trees/cover etc so I dont think the quail#'s will recover much.

I went 5-10 years ago to the Parsons area, but stopped going. Used to just hunt fence rows and you could have all the birds a man could want in a day and not put a dent in them, my father went many years before that in the 80's & 90's. Now most of the fence rows are gone.
 
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