Possible first dog

B

BakkenRoosterMan

New member
So, my family and I will be in a position to pick up a new dog possibly this spring. I've done a ton of book reading, but I'd like to hear some words from those with experience.

What are good dogs for first time hunting dog owner/trainers? I have a vast amount of experience training non-sporting breeds, but zero experience teaching a dog to hunt. I plan on getting help when I can afford it. So the vast majority of this pup's education will come from me. I REALLY like German Wirehaired Pointers. Also up for consideration are golden retrievers and pointing labs. All of them are excellent options, but how are they with beginners? I've heard that GWPs can be willful, but that's not something I'm unaccustomed to while dog training in general.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is this; are there any breeds that are more apt to take training (especially hunting training) than others?

Any advice would be graciously appreciated!
 
A well bred Golden will be very biddable and willing to please. A Light hand is all it takes. Ive had 3 that all did well and I suk as a trainer!! Really, I do!! :D
 
If you are going with a Lab or a Golden, make sure the dog is from good hunting lines. A good pup will make a poor trainer ( like myself) look like an Einstein. Be careful with Labs there are a lot of poor breeders out there.
 
new dog

I second the above post on the GET GOOD LINES. I have seen many bargain dogs that aren't worth a spent shell. I was in your boat 30 years ago. Got a book called game dog and another called water dog. Took that first dog to master hunter in the akc tests. Got the best I could afford. Lab out of good hunting stock in South Dakota. Fast forward to last year. Did the same. Iowa Pointing lab Grits had a litter. Paid up big time. Worked her in South Dakota last year at 7 months . Delivered and sat bird to hand. Best nose anyone there had saw. Now we are going in 2 weeks back to S.D . Long story short. Spend the most you can to buy the best you can. It narrows the chances of issues with Drive, Trainability. Ect.
You can do it if you commit the time. Make the dog your partner, Show it what you want, help it learn. Its pretty cool when it all works out. We have all seen crappy dogs. There are lots of clubs that cost peanuts to join and the members will help you. Lab clubs, pointer clubs. Dog people are the best group I know.
Best wishes
 
join a NAVHDA group and they will help you train your pup, very helpful folks!
i would recommend a pointing breed.:)
 
david0311

BakkenRoosterMan said:
Same goes for Goldens too. Too many dogs bred for pets or show dogs. Gotta be picky.
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Note what Tom and some others have mentioned--research the breeding--get help on choosing the pup regardless of breed you decide on--

Spend the money on a good solid breeding--check references--be thorough- etc.--the difference of a few hundred or even or a thousand over the life of the dog is insignificant to the pride and and joy of having a good/great one--

Good luck--:cheers:

How about giving Golden Boy on this forum a look see??? He has had some good breedings in the past from what I have read--
 
david0311 said:
Note what Tom and some others have mentioned--research the breeding--get help on choosing the pup regardless of breed you decide on--

Spend the money on a good solid breeding--check references--be thorough- etc.--the difference of a few hundred or even or a thousand over the life of the dog is insignificant to the pride and and joy of having a good/great one--

Good luck--:cheers:

How about giving Golden Boy on this forum a look see??? He has had some good breedings in the past from what I have read--
Click to expand...

I would second goldenboy. I have never hunted with him or his dogs but jonnyB has. If jonny says his dogs are good they are. I have hunted many times with jonny and his dog. His golden is by far the best I have ever hunted behind. I will hunt with a cheap gun, drive and old truck and stay in a cheap motel, but I will never again chince on a dog. I paid what I considered at the time to be a lot for my dog, every time I hunt with him with my cheap gun and my old truck I quickly remember why.
 
Its best to keep the wife out of most of the process.:)

There are a few on here I really trust who are breeding dogs. GoldenBoy and JeremyS are a couple of them.
 
I like you had experience in training dogs( cow dogs ) but had not trained a hunting dog until I got bit by the bird hunting bug! My first one ( Melba a GWP) is twelve years old now and was a breeze to train for my first pointing dog. Obedience, obedience, obedience. A well bred GWP wil have the hunt bred in to them, God given talent. Your job is to not screw up what God and your breeder put in the dog!!! My middle dog is Deutch Drather and my newest is also GWP. Both of them were easy to train as well. My only recommendation on GWP breed is, if your new dog isn't going to be part of the family, it will not be your breed. Don't get me wrong I like the Goldens and the Labs but..... They are the most over bred dogs in the U.S. If you decide you want a lab or a golden make sure you buy from a kennel that specializes in that breed for hunting and has been doing that breed only for many years. To the Lab and Golden guys, don't get all offended, it's just my opinion!!!
 
Lots of good advice here. Pick the breed you like and then pick the best line possible. Then find a mentor. I for one think life is too short to hunt over an ugly dog so I have a springer and a pointer. But if you don't mind ugly dogs, a GWP would be nice :cheers:
 
I've had one of each breed you are looking at. I don't find the GWP to any more or less willful than the golden or the lab. I imagine all dogs will probably test your patience at some point... In terms of training, I think the lab was probably the most frustrating, but I had less patience and higher standards back then... :laugh:
Actually, they were all great dogs and all very cooperative and eager to please.
 
Tom: thanks for the kind words about my Max. He comes from a long-established line of hunting Golden's from the Chicago area, Top Brass.

And, as long as we giving compliments about our dogs, your Buddy (Lab) has the best nose and highest intensity of any Lab I've hunted with; both dogs are deadly on pheasants; if we can only keep the dogs arriving at a downed bird at the same time!!
 
Hi guys.
I'm new to this forum. I'm not a very experienced trainer, but I saw this thread and thought I'd been there in the same boat a couple dogs ago and I thought I'd share what I've come to learn from professional classes and the long and common list of books and videos. I got a female American Field Lab for my first dog. It came from a good hunting line. She has a ton of hunting desire. Never a slacker. I've kept her trim over all the years and at 10 years old, she looks as trim as she did at 2. I chose a started dog for my first dog as well. My second dog was on the other end of the scale in terms of technical training needed. I got an Elhew Pointer as I live in the southwest where it's hot, was only interested in upland hunting, and focused heavily on quail, with pheasant an occasional prey. I gave the dog's coat care requirements some weight as well. Short hair was my preference, all other things being equal.

But to your question, you didn't say what types of hunting you wanted the dog to do, where you live, and what type of hunting you put the most emphasis on. Your initial preference for a GWP makes me think you want a dog that can waterfowl and upland hunt. I've seen some outstanding GWPs, and the similar breeds, Drahthaars, and Griffons. They're a fair sized dog for the house, if it's going to be a house dog. They seem like a sturdy dog.

But the guys that mentioned specific hunting performance breeding as a priority are spot-on, IMO. I've been to three George Hickox classes and people show up with their house pet of a known hunting breed, only to find out the dog has no predatory drive. They spent a bunch of money coming to an expensive class and traveled many miles to find out they didn't have a dog capable of being trained to hunt well or at all. As many trainers have said: "you can't push on a rope". What that means is: training doesn't teach hunting desire/drive, it teaches control. Hunting desire/drive is bred into the dog. I believe this so much that I would not consider buying a dog/pup without researching the pedigree and knowing or seeing the related dogs hunting desire and capability. I've seen a litter of extremely well bred Pointer pups 12 weeks old that, when a live locked wing quail was tossed on the ground, they exhibited more predatory drive than half the hunting dogs that showed up for the class. The three highest things on my list for a new dog/pup are breeding, breeding, breeding. My pointer, with 3 American Field Dog HOFs in her lineage and a multi Pheasant Shooting Dog champ as her sire, has scenting and drive capabilities that are beyond anything I had witnessed until I got her. I'm convinced.
 
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Agree on finding a breeder/breeding that fits what your looking for. Drastic differences from one line to the next are likely.

One more point I'd like to make. Pedigrees don't always tell the whole story. Seeing actual dog flesh in person is important as well. If at all possible arrange a visit to a prospective breeder and ask to see his dogs work. Seeing the damn and or sire is even better. What you see is what you get.
 
BakkenRoosterMan said:
So, my family and I will be in a position to pick up a new dog possibly this spring. I've done a ton of book reading, but I'd like to hear some words from those with experience.

What are good dogs for first time hunting dog owner/trainers? I have a vast amount of experience training non-sporting breeds, but zero experience teaching a dog to hunt. I plan on getting help when I can afford it. So the vast majority of this pup's education will come from me. I REALLY like German Wirehaired Pointers. Also up for consideration are golden retrievers and pointing labs. All of them are excellent options, but how are they with beginners? I've heard that GWPs can be willful, but that's not something I'm unaccustomed to while dog training in general.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is this; are there any breeds that are more apt to take training (especially hunting training) than others?

Any advice would be graciously appreciated!
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Definitely breeding over breed. I've heard GWP's can be willful as well, was ready for it when I was breeder shopping. Met and watched the parents of my GWP interact with people and work a field.

My GWP is none of the things you hear about as classic potential negative characteristics (depending on what you are looking for, they could be positives too) of a GWP: willful (she is not at all), sharp with small mammals (not at all, she wants to play with everything cat size and above, ignores everything smaller), standoffish with new people (not at all, she is as friendly as any dog I have ever seen), and etc. However she is as birdy as a dog can be, fantastic retriever, and backs points naturally. Didn't have to train backing at all, just made sure when the dog she backed got a bird, Maddie got to check it out and get heavily praised before it went into the bag. She is also the least dominant dog I've ever been around, but manages to do that without being pathetic.

From what I have heard, her littermates are all pretty much the same.
 
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41magsnub said:
Definitely breeding over breed. I've heard GWP's can be willful as well, was ready for it when I was breeder shopping. Met and watched the parents of my GWP interact with people and work a field.

My GWP is none of the things you hear about as classic potential negative characteristics (depending on what you are looking for, they could be positives too) of a GWP: willful (she is not at all), sharp with small mammals (not at all, she wants to play with everything cat size and above, ignores everything smaller), standoffish with new people (not at all, she is as friendly as any dog I have ever seen), and etc. However she is as birdy as a dog can be, fantastic retriever, and backs points naturally. Didn't have to train backing at all, just made sure when the dog she backed got a bird, Maddie got to check it out and get heavily praised before it went into the bag. She is also the least dominant dog I've ever been around, but manages to do that without being pathetic.

From what I have heard, her littermates are all pretty much the same.
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Yours sounds like a wonderful dog. Where'd you get her?
 
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