Pointing to far/ not moving in on running birds.

Caleb Frank

Caleb Frank

New member
I have a dog that often points at birds that are far off. Or, if the bird starts running he won't move up unless you keep calling him and he only moves a little bit. Is there any way of fixing that? He has been hunting for 3 years now, so bird exposure hasen't fixed it. A professional trainer said to do dead bird drags or have him track a bird with it wing feathers pulled out. Which he does good at but when he gets out hunting he still doesn't move closer.
 
I would work on tapping him on the back of the head with a verbal release while walking or while practicing whoa as yard work. Be enthusiastic about the release. Stay positive when you transition to birds in the field.

Remember dogs need to be trained in increments(building blocks).
Start this work without a gun and you will need to add a gun before you transition to the field.
 
I do not see an issue with what you describe. In theory he is doing exactly what most high-end trainers want. On pheasants this can get interesting if not a bit frustrating. The flip side is a dog that gets too close - makes visible contact and flushes a bird out of gun range.

I will take a high-performance nose bird dog anytime.

Walk up to him or past him and release him.

I have had a few Britts do this ... I do not mind them holding that point until I get close ... these dogs have all learned to release themselves as I got close to them.
 
The scent cone around a wild moving bird is so much greater than a dragged bird or planted bird. Not even close.
 
Gimruis - not sure you have hunting behind high performance pointing dogs ...

My dogs can go on point 10 yards+ from where the birds are (or well maybe were they originally were). On windy days they can lock up 25 - 30 yards away from the birds. My pup just did this on Tuesday. He held until I released him. It was great !
 
BRITTMAN said:
Gimruis - not sure you have hunting behind high performance pointing dogs ...
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That has zero relevance to this conversation.

The OP did not indicate a number. We don't know if its 20 yards or 700. Its impossible to offer advice if he doesn't provide more details on the problem.

For the record I've hunted behind a GWP, Vizsla, and a Meunsterlander. I won't be doing it again.
 
gimruis said:
For the record I've hunted behind a GWP, Vizsla, and a Meunsterlander. I won't be doing it again.
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Off topic but I'm curious about this. Did you mean you won't hunt behind a pointer again? Or those 3 breeds? I mean making a judgement about a breed based on a single dog isn't smart.

As for OP I think we do need to know how far is too far for you. Are you not able to walk up and flush the birds? It's okay to leave the dog behind you while doing so. But if they are 100+ yards out it's weird that they won't relocate more when you call them. Is it a young dog? If so maybe just need to keep encouraging them up and they will learn.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
Off topic but I'm curious about this. Did you mean you won't hunt behind a pointer again? Or those 3 breeds? I mean making a judgement about a breed based on a single dog isn't smart.
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I'm not here to bash someone else's preference with dog breeds. That thread has already run its course and its 6 pages long.
 
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As I read the original post dog won't reposition without coaxing. Dog may be bird or gun shy.

Gimrius you already have bashed 3 breeds so..... have a nice day.😉
 
I am waiting for the original poster to respond. I have a Brittany that had a phenomenal nose and the ability to lock up pretty far out. At first, she would only break when I walked past her and she learned to release herself. Her ability to find and pin birds became truly remarkable as she matured. She was not bird shy or gun shy. Her instinct to hold point was just that strong.

I posted a photo of my 8-month-old Brittany on another thread with some notes. He locked up on a bird Tuesday in some really strong wind. He was on a check cord and this was just his second real contact day with birds. He locked up 30 yards from where the bird was planted. He whoaed and held point (check cord loose to the ground) until I released him. He moved up about 15 yards and then froze up again. We repositioned again and he finally pointed the bird about 10 feet out. I will take a young dog like that vs. creeping and flushing.

Wild birds are different, but I will share that I have killed birds under point when we were convinced the birds were much further out.
 
Or, if the bird starts running he won't move up unless you keep calling him
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To the original poster ... don't be yelling or calling out to that dog on point. Listen to Weidman's advice or develop your own signal, but make sure you get your tail up to him. There may be a bird closer than you think. If you want him to reposition ... you are also now likely closer to the shot opportunity down the road. That wild bird likely knows you are there, but I can tell you when my dog is on birds and I mistakenly yell out to them ... that is when the bird runs harder or worse flushes wildly out of range.
 
I think it's flush/bird shy. It may have been natural or could have been caused without you even knowing it. Maybe just raising your voice when it was chasing a bird when a puppy. Hopefully you didn't use a shock collar?? At three years old a fix may be futile. I would try using another dog with it. One that will break on command and see if I could get it to break. I've seen this before. Although frustrating it's not impossible to kill birds with him. Like captain shotgun says above grouse hunters would love that. Only thing is the dog I saw like this wouldn't break from a 2-day old turkey track the same as he wouldn't break from a grouse under his nose!! Keep hunting him, get him in as many birds as possible!!
 
The dog I was talking about was an english setter. He ussaly points birds 20 yards at minimum or more out. I just got a new pup last year (GWP) and was able to get her out late last season. She pointed a wounded bird that my English setter pointed and he was at least 30 yards back and she was right on top of it. My dad always tells me that when he hunted with our neighbors or my uncle's dogs, they would get right on top of them and pin the bird down( pointing Giffons). But by some of your comments it sounds like they shouldn't do that. The main problem is he refuses to move up and relocate birds when they are running. He can be called off whoa in the yard just fine but in the feild he will not move. I was hunting with the same two dogs from before and the English setter was pointing a bird and not moving up and the GWP flushed the bird 40 yards from the ES. I guess it's ok if this doesn't get fixed because I can just call my other dog in to find it. He seems to be getting better, I know how much this site hates game farm birds. But I started hunting this spot were the state stocks birds because the wild population this year was worst than it ussaly is in my area. And he has gotten better at moving up on running birds and finding wounded birds. He is a little gun sensitive and I worked with a professional trainer for a whole summer a few years ago. It got to a point that he helped us train the dog for free, and we finally just went for it and shot over him and he handled it ok. More contact with birds is probably the only solution but I was trying to see if there is anything I could do out side of the season.
 
captainshotgun said:
To the OP, it sounds like one he!! of a ruffed grouse dog! Would you sell him?
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Or a heck of a field trial dog. I really don't see what the OP posted as being a problem. But I guess we all have our individual ideas of what we want our dogs to do in the field.
 
My setter also does this. It’s kind of annoying. I contribute it to possibly having to good of nose. He smells every thing and has a hard time determining how fresh the scent is. In areas where there has been a lot of bird activity it’s the worst. But there are times when he will not release and I’ll almost always guarantee there is a bird there. The craziest part for mine will be when he does release he’ll run in the opposite direction that he was looking. When I hunt with others that don’t know my dog they will constantly inform me he’s on point. I mostly ignore them because he just relocating the scent. On a windy day he’ll pause 50 yards out
 
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