New...Open Fields Program

M

Montana Husker

Banned
What are the feelings about this program, sounds great up front, creating better habitat in crp fields, always a good thing, the way I understand it the state will offer pheasant enhancement help to landowners who allow access to their property. I understand Montana has received a federal grant from the US govt. for this program. It sounds good, but when is enough enough with govt. spending, especially when we are running the deficits we currently are. I believe most landowners are excellent stewarts of the land, seems to me you pretty much always see more game animals and non-game animals on private ground then any federal or state land. Now there is talk about raising taxes a certain percentage of us Americans, I already pay more then my share! I work with several landowners trying to make their land prime habitat for a number of species. From planting oat plots , controlled burns, proper game management , theres alot we as sportsman can do to help landowners when it comes to this, we do not always need the Govts. handouts. Sometimes it best just to put your work gloves on, strap up your boots and sweat a little! Something alot of this country has forgot about!
 
Montana Husker said:
What are the feelings about this program, sounds great up front, creating better habitat in crp fields, always a good thing, the way I understand it the state will offer pheasant enhancement help to landowners who allow access to their property. I understand Montana has received a federal grant from the US govt. for this program. It sounds good, but when is enough enough with govt. spending, especially when we are running the deficits we currently are. I believe most landowners are excellent stewarts of the land, seems to me you pretty much always see more game animals and non-game animals on private ground then any federal or state land. Now there is talk about raising taxes a certain percentage of us Americans, I already pay more then my share! I work with several landowners trying to make their land prime habitat for a number of species. From planting oat plots , controlled burns, proper game management , theres alot we as sportsman can do to help landowners when it comes to this, we do not always need the Govts. handouts. Sometimes it best just to put your work gloves on, strap up your boots and sweat a little! Something alot of this country has forgot about!
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LOL.....OH BOY, this thing is loaded! MH, I have a game we can play:D. Let's see how many posts this thread receives before the mod's lock it up:D:):cheers:
 
Montana Husker said:
Yeah, I thought I would throw a little political theatre in there to stir things up a little, dog days of summer you know......LOL
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Well, there's no doubt it can stir things up a bit MH. I think most of us have learned our lessons with such things from years past:).lol

Usually turns into a train wreck every time.:eek: You'll see what I mean if your thread gets traction. Give it some time.:D
 
All is cool.:thumbsup:
I'll stir the pot:) The private land in MT has almost all the pheasants. The federal land with taxpayer money is NOT managed for pheasants anymore.
War on the Russian Olives for example. And in no way are the RO's threatening to anything. Great shelter for wintering pheasants.
I'll bet!! that the federal grant is set up for the eradication of Russian Olives on private property.
The feds have been working on incentives for land owners to get rid of the RO's windbreaks.
 
mnmthunting said:
All is cool.:thumbsup:
I'll stir the pot:) The private land in MT has almost all the pheasants. The federal land with taxpayer money is NOT managed for pheasants anymore.
War on the Russian Olives for example. And in no way are the RO's threatening to anything. Great shelter for wintering pheasants.
I'll bet!! that the federal grant is set up for the eradication of Russian Olives on private property.
The feds have been working on incentives for land owners to get rid of the RO's windbreaks.
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Wayne, you make an excellent point about Russian Olives. Not to mention Wind breaks in general. Fence lines are another sore spot with me. I think this thread will be a good one.
 
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Russian Olive trees

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would destroy a RO tree, particularly in eastern MT where trees can be a premium. They provide excellent habitat and food for upland game birds.

As I drive thru my native eastern Montana, I admire the miles of Russian Olive trees in the shelter belts. I can remember the Soil Conservation Service (SCS) promoting and cost sharing the planting of RO's. Lord give me strenghth!!

Bucketmouth
 
Its off the subject , but was at the fair in Plentywood on friday night and talked to a few guys who were able to get away from combining for the evening to enjoy Sawyer Brown and the fair...they all had good things to say about the number of pheasants they were seeing while combing. I saw quite a few along the highway on my way back to Glasgow in the morning too...
 
Bucketmouth said:
For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would destroy a RO tree, particularly in eastern MT where trees can be a premium. They provide excellent habitat and food for upland game birds.

As I drive thru my native eastern Montana, I admire the miles of Russian Olive trees in the shelter belts. I can remember the Soil Conservation Service (SCS) promoting and cost sharing the planting of RO's. Lord give me strenghth!!

Bucketmouth
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This is SPOT ON. The USF&W service and the UDSA promoted and paid for the Russian Olives for shelter belts, windbreaks, wildlife cover etc.

By the way Russian Olives are NO THREAT to Range land or farm land!
RO's are prevalent in areas almost exclusively where the homesteaders planted them.

There is a new generation of Wildlife Managers, not game managers, Anything introduced like pheasants will not be a part of management. [talking about the Feds]
 
Plant species receive different nods in different sections of the country....good to remember.
In places either russian or autumn olive are terrible invasives, planted simply because they will grow on a sandrock and spread....everywhere, choking out most all else.
I'm not sure that they are worse tho than the newest scourge, the bush honeysuckle varietals...in the East, imo, these may be worse than multiflowery.
Yet to be determined.
I'd much rather see natural regeneration in areas blessed with remaining topsoil and native plants....however, all areas of the country are not so blessed.
There, invasive plantings can carry more plusses than minuses.
 
Not sure there is any "winnning" this debate. I won't argue that Russian olives help pheasants overwinter in some areas. However, there is plenty of research showing the negative effects of trees on a formerly treeless prairie. Many of the native birds evolved on the prairie without trees (which can harbor avain and mammalian predators). However, I will stop there, since this is a pheasant forum. Back to pheasants, there is also good research showing that nest success is significantly lower for pheasants near trees in many areas, the old double edged sword.

With access getting tougher everyday in many parts of the country, I like the open fields concept. How to pay for such programs is open for debate...

After this pot is done being stirred, maybe we can decide which dog breed is best....:D
 
OK, Then answer as best you can.

Montana's pheasant population BY FAR!!! ARE IN AND ALONG STREAMS, riparian arias along rivers, tributaries. LOTS and LOTS of trees, mostly native, here and there is a old homestead with some Russian Olives, not significant and reseed REAL poorly. Planted as a seedling RO's do OK in a dry climate.

SO YOU KNOW WHAT? There are VERY FEW pheasants in the BIG grasslands. YEAH FOR SURE. Spent a lot of my life out there.

A couple REAL mild Winters, YEAH SURE, MT pheasants will spread into the grasslands.

Winter of 011-012 pheasants, Huns and even the Sharpies needed some help.
 
Sage Grouse have no use for trees of any kind. Sharptail Grouse on the other hand need and use the brushy draws and trees in coulees. There are 10's of thousands of coulees and draws all through central and Eastern MT with trees, and shrubs. All native and natural stuff. Russian Olives are rare in these natural wooded areas. In areas where there is some farming adjacent or around these coulees you will find the Ringnecks and there are truly some "honey holes":thumbsup:
 
BrowningCitori said:
Many of the native birds evolved on the prairie without trees (which can harbor avain and mammalian predators).
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A story to illustrate the complicated nature of human manipulation of animal populations.
A friend was the unit biologist for the Calif. Dept. of Fish and Game whose area of responsibility was the Bodie Hills in Eastern Calif. There was a remnant population of sage grouse in the Hills that DFG would issue tags for after a drawing that would allow you to shoot one bird. They would remove a maximum of 20-30 birds from this population that was at the extreme edge of the Sage Grouse's range and will probably become extinct on its own.
The town of Bodie and it surroundings were managed by the state Parks Dept. They thought that they needed to erect a fence around the town to prevent cattle from getting into the townsite. They built it without an analysis of its impacts which my friend had to point out were significant on Sage Grouse because when they move to their leks in the spring to attract a mate, they basically walk there through the sage brush. Raptors that preyed on them were not Buteos that soar but were Accipiters that had to see them and then fly and strike them. By building something that seems as benign as a barbed wire fence with wooden posts, the Parks Dept. had constructed a perfect set of perches for the predators to sit on and wait at a height that was high enough they could see the grouse walking to the leks as opposed to having to fly constantly giving the Grouse a chance to see them.
Nothing is simple in nature.
 
speaking of the sage grouse, they are getting scarce here in Montana too, hope people refrain from shooting them up, they are an easy target and I have heard stories of entire flocks getting shot up by yahoos. If your visiting our area, hope people realize the cituation these birds are facing today, and heaven forbid they become like the passenger pigeon we have heard stories about. I think it is time we as hunters become conservationist when it come to the sage grouse.
 
Montana Husker said:
speaking of the sage grouse, they are getting scarce here in Montana too, hope people refrain from shooting them up, they are an easy target and I have heard stories of entire flocks getting shot up by yahoos. If your visiting our area, hope people realize the cituation these birds are facing today, and heaven forbid they become like the passenger pigeon we have heard stories about. I think it is time we as hunters become conservationist when it come to the sage grouse.
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Sounds like the Sage Grouse is a lot like the Prairie Chicken here in KS. There are still enough to hunt but the numbers are not anything like what they used to be.

I hunt PC some each year in the early season over a pointing dog. They are not great eating in my book.

I am making my first trip to Montana in Oct. Would love to shoot a Saga Grouse over my dog. But from what I hear they are not at the top of the list for eating. So I could be one and done. :cheers:
 
Back to the subject of the thread, the details of the Open Field Program will determine its success and how it affects hunters.
I have to say that after trying to take advantage of the Upland Game Bird Enhancement Program the last three years I'm pretty disappointed. I've found very few fields posted as required and the hunting where birds were supposed to have been planted to be non-existent. I made friends with one rancher who let the guy who grew pheasants for the program plant birds on his property. He said they planted about 30 birds to augment the hundreds of birds he already had in his fields that were hatched there. He said he thought FWP paid the guy something like $8/ bird and he grew thousands of birds. There was one other grower in the NE corner of the state who also grew pheasants for, as I recall, a total of 11,000 birds. I've talked to the UGBEP people the last two years about their poor maps, signing, and directions but nothing changes. I hope the Open Fields Program is more like the BMA program than the UGBEP.
 
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