More Birds Than Last Year

I'll spend as long as I can trying to find a cripple if I think I still have a reasonable chance of finding it. I've even gone back through areas where a bird went down later in the day to see if we can come back across it again. It works every so often. Last year we were hunting a thick tree grove and I opted to leave the dog in the truck. A guy hit a bird and all three of us searched for a good while and never found him. We got back to the truck and we drove to where we downed the bird and I let the dog go search, this was an hour later. She squeezes under the thickest tangle of brush she could find and out she comes with the crippled rooster. I believe it is on us as sportsmen and ethical people to do a few things. One, hone our craft of shotgunning to where we would rarely wound birds. That's simple, it just takes practice. Two, to make every effort possible to take ethical and in range shots. Not just a poke and a prayer. Three, do everything possible to find our downed prey once it has been hit. A fifty percent loss rate is never an acceptable rate in my book, and should not be in anyone's in my opinion. If I were running an operation I would get a little mad that twice the birds are being shot to obtain a limit due to poor shooting, poor dog work, or lazy attitudes. I've been on hunts with people like this. I politely decline to attend these anymore because of the way some people operate with their lazy views on finding birds and their poor shooting.
 
Thanks to good dogs the only wounded one we lost this year was one where we didnt have the dogs. My friends GSP's tracked down and trapped a rooster in between them that they had been after (while also hunting) for a mile and a half. Hell of a find.
 
Uguide, it's great to see your strong numbers as the season goes on. I agree with your hypothesis that, for those who are managing ground for pheasants, the numbers are staying strong and can defy the harvest outlook numbers, especially during a season following a moderate winter and decent nesting conditions.

But I'm not sure that the Game and Fish overall numbers are wrong. They include all the public land, where CRP and good weed/crop management don't matter as much for inclusion in MAPS or PLOTS programs, as they do for you and the land you manage. So long as those "public" properties continue to decline in good habitat (or overall acreage), total State bird numbers will eventuqlly follow, I'm afraid. The public land hunters see the decreases first.

Congratulations to you for doing your part, and keep your fingers crossed that well-managed bird populations on private lands can sustain overall numbers. I'm worried, though, that such a model will only work for a while, and only when you've had good nesting and wintering conditions the year before. I hope I'm wrong.
 
blockade said:
Uguide, it's great to see your strong numbers as the season goes on. I agree with your hypothesis that, for those who are managing ground for pheasants, the numbers are staying strong and can defy the harvest outlook numbers, especially during a season following a moderate winter and decent nesting conditions.

But I'm not sure that the Game and Fish overall numbers are wrong. They include all the public land, where CRP and good weed/crop management don't matter as much for inclusion in MAPS or PLOTS programs, as they do for you and the land you manage. So long as those "public" properties continue to decline in good habitat (or overall acreage), total State bird numbers will eventuqlly follow, I'm afraid. The public land hunters see the decreases first.

Congratulations to you for doing your part, and keep your fingers crossed that well-managed bird populations on private lands can sustain overall numbers. I'm worried, though, that such a model will only work for a while, and only when you've had good nesting and wintering conditions the year before. I hope I'm wrong.
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Well stated. I think you captured the whole picture of what is happening in SD today. That is my observation as well. :thumbsup:
 
One point to consider... State land is a fraction of private land in total acres ( at least in my area). Theoretically if the farm policies were aliigned with conservation, you could have explosive wildlife benefits even if the state land was marginal. There are many factors for farmers to consider... unless it's economically beneficial for them they will choose to do what's best for them. Sorry for the tangent on this thread but I suppose it's somewhat related to bird numbers.
 
blockade said:
Uguide, it's great to see your strong numbers as the season goes on. I agree with your hypothesis that, for those who are managing ground for pheasants, the numbers are staying strong and can defy the harvest outlook numbers, especially during a season following a moderate winter and decent nesting conditions.

But I'm not sure that the Game and Fish overall numbers are wrong. They include all the public land, where CRP and good weed/crop management don't matter as much for inclusion in MAPS or PLOTS programs, as they do for you and the land you manage. So long as those "public" properties continue to decline in good habitat (or overall acreage), total State bird numbers will eventuqlly follow, I'm afraid. The public land hunters see the decreases first.

Congratulations to you for doing your part, and keep your fingers crossed that well-managed bird populations on private lands can sustain overall numbers. I'm worried, though, that such a model will only work for a while, and only when you've had good nesting and wintering conditions the year before. I hope I'm wrong.
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Bird numbers are not what they were 10 years ago. May not be again in my life time. As Chris and others have said, if habitat is provided there will be birds. I have had hunters book a couple of extra days lodging so they could hunt public. They were never happy with the public. I think there will be a difference between public and private bird production. As crop prices increased we lost habitat. We will see if that changes when we start talking about the next farm bill. Last year I had hunters that did not rebook. This year every group has rebooked. I have only week 9 open next year. We have more birds but I also think there is a change in attitude about what is worth paying for, and an appreciation for places that have good habitat. I think some people like to see that some of there money is going to provide wildlife habitat.
 
TimJ said:
I have lost 2 birds out of around 30 that I have hit this year. I feel bad about those. Both hit running next to standing corn and I wouldn't let my dog go in after them.

50% is a horrible loss rate no matter how you want to paint it. Yep some are always going to be lost and I understand that. It isn't about being talented it is about having some self control and then searching for downed birds with dogs that can hunt. Without that it is just shooting without care. I'll be damned if I'm going to let commercial operations and their flippant attitude towards cripples be seen as normal practice.

I know for sure that I wouldn't use the numbers hit and not found as advertisement for my managed land (advertising is what you are doing here). Seems to me I'd be upset that those hunting my land weren't recovering what they should. Losing birds that could otherwise be shot by other clients. Just think what those numbers would look like if even 75% of birds were recovered.

And I sure the heck didn't hijack any post either. You posted your advertisement and got called out on it. It was you who brought those numbers up.

Tim
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I would add to this but I really can't think of anything
 
I see that it's back to slash and burn people--said I would not go there and I will not--see ya :(
 
haymaker said:
Bird numbers are not what they were 10 years ago. May not be again in my life time.
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Yes those were good years 2006 and a few more after. I remember thinking then that it was too good to last. It was just phenomenal. The numbers may never be like that again....but they might. You just never know how the cards will fall. The last 3-4 years have seen a slow but steady decline in the areas I have hunted though.

So much goes into bird numbers. You need rain for good cover but not too much and also at the right times. A hard cold rain with low temperatures will kill a lot of chicks if it comes at the wrong time.

Good moisture promotes good pastures and keeps sloughs wet. As a result there's plenty of feed and the sloughs are too wet to bale. That can help a lot.

If you go long periods (weeks) without dew on the ground, that will kill chicks as well.

Crop prices have a lot to do with how much marginal land gets farmed, taking away more cover or letting it lay when prices are low.

Many of my friends point to high predator numbers. Yeah, that's a factor and the amount of cover plays into that too. When there's no decent moisture to grow cover, when everything gets baled because the alfalfa doesn't do well, it makes a predators job a lot easier. No cover is easy pickings for predators.

Temperatures, moisture, crop prices, predators, storms and more that I have not mentioned all go into making or breaking the pheasant crop.

Obviously it's possible to farm for pheasants and limit the effect of some of the things I have mentioned. That's not cheap either.

I know I don't have the answers but I do know there's a lot of variables that go into making a good pheasant crop statewide.

I'm just thankful there are fields to explore with my dogs.
 
Chestle said:
Yes those were good years 2006 and a few more after. I remember thinking then that it was too good to last. It was just phenomenal. The numbers may never be like that again....but they might. You just never know how the cards will fall. The last 3-4 years have seen a slow but steady decline in the areas I have hunted though.

So much goes into bird numbers. You need rain for good cover but not too much and also at the right times. A hard cold rain with low temperatures will kill a lot of chicks if it comes at the wrong time.

Good moisture promotes good pastures and keeps sloughs wet. As a result there's plenty of feed and the sloughs are too wet to bale. That can help a lot.

If you go long periods (weeks) without dew on the ground, that will kill chicks as well.

Crop prices have a lot to do with how much marginal land gets farmed, taking away more cover or letting it lay when prices are low.

Many of my friends point to high predator numbers. Yeah, that's a factor and the amount of cover plays into that too. When there's no decent moisture to grow cover, when everything gets baled because the alfalfa doesn't do well, it makes a predators job a lot easier. No cover is easy pickings for predators.

Temperatures, moisture, crop prices, predators, storms and more that I have not mentioned all go into making or breaking the pheasant crop.

Obviously it's possible to farm for pheasants and limit the effect of some of the things I have mentioned. That's not cheap either.

I know I don't have the answers but I do know there's a lot of variables that go into making a good pheasant crop statewide.

I'm just thankful there are fields to explore with my dogs.
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That is well said. You have a good understanding of how things are.
 
TimJ said:
I'll be damned if I'm going to let commercial operations and their flippant attitude towards cripples be seen as normal practice.

I know for sure that I wouldn't use the numbers hit and not found as advertisement for my managed land (advertising is what you are doing here).

Tim
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This isn't advertising because there is no one on this site that will be a prospective uguide customer.

It's pretty hard to hit a bird that isn't first produced.

Everyday this season just about it hit 70 degrees at 3pm and 30% humidity. I had 2 different groups tell me they harvest 16 birds and lost 8. My point was it was conceivable that they could have wounded another 8 that would have perished shortly therafter.

The numbers speak to the productivity of the land not how good and ethical a self guided fair chase sportsman is.
 
If I weren't out with my 3 decent labs, I would shudder to think about the retrieve rate of some of the groups that I hunt with if they were out on their own...I am no hero, but just saying....they could easily lose 25%-50% of birds hit...if you operate land to hunt on, pretty hard to control this aspect of your customers....
 
regardless if he is making money on UGUIDE or not, I think it is fair to say that Chris is doing more for habitat and pheasants than any of us, perhaps all of us combined...I bought a 1/4 section in 2000 and have it enrolled in a perpetual conservation easement (WRP)...I have done nothing ....Thanks Chris...you are asking landowners to think about habitat...showing them what it can do for them...we need more of that!!!!! I hope your business is profitable...keep doing it, more, more, more!!!!
 
benelli-banger said:
If I weren't out with my 3 decent labs, I would shudder to think about the retrieve rate of some of the groups that I hunt with if they were out on their own...I am no hero, but just saying....they could easily lose 25%-50% of birds hit...if you operate land to hunt on, pretty hard to control this aspect of your customers....
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Yes, There is not one person on this sight that has not lost birds. It happens.

Lets get back on the track on this thread.
 
"back on track"? the 2nd reply to Chris' initial post dealt with the loss issue...this is where things went...what is the problem with that? not being argumentative, just making an observation...I view these threads as a group of us sitting around a big table having a beer or three...discussions take many turns...whatever.
 
benelli-banger said:
"back on track"? the 2nd reply to Chris' initial post dealt with the loss issue...this is where things went...what is the problem with that? not being argumentative, just making an observation...I view these threads as a group of us sitting around a big table having a beer or three...discussions take many turns...whatever.
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agree, no need to get defensive or offensive for that matter.......it has been a down season and a bit frustrating for many who hunt the Daks...weather has not been helpful either.
 
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