Lab guys sorry but....

W

Weimdogman

Well-known member
My friend has 2 labs and after hunting with my buddies vdds and my weims informed us that he told his better half "when the old dog can't hunt anymore we are getting a versatile". He says it's just too simple not to.
 
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, labs are fantastic dogs, I've hunted with them and my dad had labs when I grew up, but they don't compare to a versatile dog.
 
I had a neighbor once who had a setter and a pointer. We went hunting and my shorthair made every point and every retrieve. Long story short, he wound up with a kennel full of shorthairs that weren't any better than the dogs he had that he never trained properly! It's not the breed it's the bloodline and the time you put in them. The two dogs I have now couldn't hold a candle to the ones I had 20 years ago. Difference being not the breed or bloodline. The difference is #1, 20 years ago I trained to a higher standard. #2, maybe 50-75 wild bird contacts a year now vs 20 years ago hundreds a year!!!
 
I agree with BD on his point of "bird contacts". Get them out hunting and they will learn. I could care less about bloodlines, trophies, field trials etc. Teach them the basics and get them in the field. But, everyone has different expectations for a dog, mine needs to help me fill my game pouch efficiently, not cook my breakfast. I am kind of a shoe string budget hunter. I would never buy an expensive dog and I did snoop around for a rescue or rehome before I bought my last one. This is very inexpensive, fun and gratifying hobby for me. I know it is quite different for others
 
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KEOutdoors said:
Oh no how will the labrador breed survive without your buddy!
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There will still be plenty of backyard breeders.

No seriously my buddy has good labs or he wouldn't have been hunting with us. He just found hunting behind our dogs more enjoyable. The fact that he got to hunt premium private ground and I don't care if he shoots his limit and mine may have swayed his decision making a bit.
 
After getting pointing breeds. I don't think I can ever go back to flushers. My family only had labs before that and don't think it's because labs are bad in any way, they just aren't the same as hunting behind your own pointer. If I hunted waterfowl, I possibly would lean the other way, but I don't and for upland game I put on miles and I like a dog who does the same. (I know some labs can do that, but that doesn't mean you can pick and lab and it'll do the same).
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
After getting pointing breeds. I don't think I can ever go back to flushers. My family only had labs before that and don't think it's because labs are bad in any way, they just aren't the same as hunting behind your own pointer. If I hunted waterfowl, I possibly would lean the other way, but I don't and for upland game I put on miles and I like a dog who does the same. (I know some labs can do that, but that doesn't mean you can pick and lab and it'll do the same).
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Thats the bad part about an upland lab. You get 3 years of running for 10 miles, 2-3 years of getting tired after a couple miles, then for the rest of their life they turn and look at you like they want to go home after 200yds. They age and slow down way too quick. My new pup runs 8-10 miles in the field, naps on the way home, and then wants to go for a walk or play. Its like having an 80lb GSP but it only lasts a couple years unfortunately.
 
LittleBigHorn22 said:
After getting pointing breeds. I don't think I can ever go back to flushers. My family only had labs before that and don't think it's because labs are bad in any way, they just aren't the same as hunting behind your own pointer. If I hunted waterfowl, I possibly would lean the other way, but I don't and for upland game I put on miles and I like a dog who does the same. (I know some labs can do that, but that doesn't mean you can pick and lab and it'll do the same).
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Yeah I agree. I've talked with a lot of guys that have versatile dogs at various NAVHDA events and a lot of them used to run labs and they say they'd never go back to a lab after having a versatile breed. Again, not that labs are bad dogs by any stretch, they're just different compared to a versatile dog.

From my own experiences hunting with labs and now my Small Munsterlanders, the bird drive is just different and a lot more intense. It's just birds birds birds birds. That's all they care about. None of my dad's labs would sit and stare out a window at birds at a bird feeder for hours compared to my SMs.
 
I started with English Setters and a Visla.
They were excellent on quail and huns.
There were a couple things I did not like:
1) if the dog went on point in a sea of cattails, as a solo hunter I would have difficulty getting a flush and shot
2) if the birds (rock ptarmigan or chukars) walked away from a point it was not rewarding the dog for the point
3) if the dog was birdy, but not yet on point, I would not shoot because that is rewarding the flush, not the point
and late season sharptails tend to flush.

In open country in Montana, I hunt my labs like pointers...they are out about 200 yards.
I follow the lab until she gets birdy, then whistle sit and move around to where I anticipate the flush.
Works well for me on ptarmigan in Alaska, huns and sharptails in Montana.
My labs are well conditioned and built for upland hunting.
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I have 2 labs and a springer and after hunting with my buddies GSPs, setters, vislas, and griffons, I will not be getting a versatile dog until I'm too old to keep up with a flusher. It's just too boring. At some point, I understand you just get too slow to actually hunt, and I'm happy there's some breeds out there so you can still shoot birds after that happens, but for now I'm still able-bodied and like a bit of excitement. Plus, if you hunt pheasants in the midwest, a flushing dog just puts more birds in the bag.
 
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AKSkeeter said:
I started with English Setters and a Visla.
They were excellent on quail and huns.
There were a couple things I did not like:
1) if the dog went on point in a sea of cattails, as a solo hunter I would have difficulty getting a flush and shot
2) if the birds (rock ptarmigan or chukars) walked away from a point it was not rewarding the dog for the point
3) if the dog was birdy, but not yet on point, I would not shoot because that is rewarding the flush, not the point
and late season sharptails tend to flush.

In open country in Montana, I hunt my labs like pointers...they are out about 200 yards.
I follow the lab until she gets birdy, then whistle sit and move around to where I anticipate the flush.
Works well for me on ptarmigan in Alaska, huns and sharptails in Montana.
My labs are well conditioned and built for upland hunting.
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View attachment 7816
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Are you saying you wistle sit them from 200 yards away when they get birdied? If so that's impressive.

For me, I don't hold strictly to the dogs having to be rock solid points and I find it's bad if they aren't willing to move for running birds since it's a pain encouraging them to move up. For thick stuff. I have a release word so my dogs will flush something which works wonders when I can't push into a spot. Plus I do shoot non pointed birds, because I understand that most of the time I was actually the one bumping, not the dog.

I think if you only hunted a single species, you can really get dialed in on a strategy type, but with multiple species, you need some versatility in there.
 
s.davis said:
I have 2 labs and a springer and after hunting with my buddies GSPs, setters, vislas, and griffons, I will not be getting a versatile dog until I'm too old to keep up with a flusher. It's just too boring. At some point, I understand you just get too slow to actually hunt, and I'm happy there's some breeds out there so you can still shoot birds after that happens, but for now I'm still able-bodied and like a bit of excitement. Plus, if you hunt pheasants in the midwest, a flushing dog just puts more birds in the bag.
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This is the first time I think I've ever seen someone claim a versatile dog was too slow haha
 
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