Favorite steel

[LittleBigHorn22]

I just got an email from Boss touting their new copperplated steel shotshell. They are emphasizing that the range is 30 yards. 1 1/8 or 1 3/8 traveling 1500FPS. Interested to hear how they perform...

It still really annoys me that they do boxes of 20 shells. The $24/box looked decent but that's really $30/box of 25. A bit expensive for steel. But I am curious to hear from people if the copper plating seems to do anything.

I am glad they have a tungsten that would work well for upland. I know $47/box of 10 is expensive but 3/4 oz #9 tss is deadly out to 60+ yards. Good option for people to use as their 2nd or 3rd shot. If you never use it, you don't waste money, if you need the 3rd shot then that tss will put things down. Honestly even using it, if you only need to shoot once compared to twice of their bismuth, it could end up cheaper per hunt.

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

12 to 14 dollars a box for high brass loads.

High brass at this point is a gimmick. Todays low brass shotsells work at the same pressures rated in shotguns which means the extra brass isn't doing anything. It's all physiological that high brass means better.

 

[Glock]

12 to 14 dollars a box for high brass loads.

Better purchase two boxes. If your cousin is like mine he will be borrowing shells from you.

 

[John Singer]

...
I am glad they have a tungsten that would work well for upland. I know $47/box of 10 is expensive but 3/4 oz #9 tss is deadly out to 60+ yards....

I am curious, how many people really think they are skilled enough at wing shooting to consistently engage a moving target at 60 yards?

I shoot a lot of sporting clays and if the target setters put out a 40 yard target, few people hit it consistently and many people bitch about it.

35 to 40 yards is a long shot in pheasant cover. 60 yards is a waste of ammunition and birds.

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

I am curious, how many people really think they are skilled enough at wing shooting to consistently engage a moving target at 60 yards?

I shoot a lot of sporting clays and if the target setters put out a 40 yard target, few people hit it consistently and many people bitch about it.

35 to 40 yards is a long shot in pheasant cover. 60 yards is a waste of ammunition and birds.

A sporting clay is much harder target than a bigger bird like a pheasant but I agree that even with TSS you shouldn't take actual 60 yard shots, I would say that the 60+ yard figure is more just assurance for taking going away shots that need to hit through the backbone. At 40 yards, not many steel or bismuth loads will go through that consistently. If you are shooting a pheasant that had dropped a leg, it's much better to keep shooting than to let it fly farther. That's where the tss would shine IMO and at worst it means you can stretch to 40 yards difficult shots vs passing on those when using steel or bismuth.

 

[Bob Peters]

I am curious, how many people really think they are skilled enough at wing shooting to consistently engage a moving target at 60 yards?

This is an excellent point John. A shot like this is beyond the skill level of most shotgunners.

 

[KEOutdoors]

I am curious, how many people really think they are skilled enough at wing shooting to consistently engage a moving target at 60 yards?

I shoot a lot of sporting clays and if the target setters put out a 40 yard target, few people hit it consistently and many people bitch about it.

35 to 40 yards is a long shot in pheasant cover. 60 yards is a waste of ammunition and birds.

I struggle big time on clays or doves at 40 yards, i bet i could hit a rooster or mallard at 40-50 way more than 50% of the time. I know i can on a mallard, been there done that playing cleanup for the blind years ago. There is a HUGE difference between clays and roosters. I dont think ive ever shot at a rooster past 40 yards that wasnt poking at a wounded bird from someone else (my followup shot is much closer than 40 on my own misses), and im never choked correctly for that range anyways. But a shell that can roll that rooster flying away with a leg hanging from a poor shot, way out there, sounds good to me

 

[KEOutdoors]

However what needs to be said is that a lot of guys 30yd shots are 40+, and their 40 yard pokes are pushing 60yds... Thats why a lot of hunters struggle with clean hits, the birds are way way out there long past where your gun is choked for. Shots often seem closer when you have a pointer stretching out to 75yds and you only get half way when he goes on point before the bird flushes, thats a 50yd shot by the time you pull that trigger.

Cant tell you how many times ive assisted someone at the pattern board and ranged my board at 40yds for them to say "thats not 40, no way". Sometimes they argue and claim the range finder is broken. Or setting decoys dove hunting when i range the spinner at 30 yards and say dont shoot past the spinners, and they say its only 15yds

 

[Bob Peters]

It still really annoys me that they do boxes of 20 shells. The $24/box looked decent but that's really $30/box of 25. A bit expensive for steel. But I am curious to hear from people if the copper plating seems to do anything.

This annoys the hell out of me as well(20 shells instead of 25). I just didn't want to say anything to avoid seeming like a whiner. It is ironic they came out with steel, because in so much media I've heard the company owners bashing it to no end. I suppose it's a way to make more money and expand the company, which I have no problem with. Competition is good for the marketplace. Copper plating on steel, I have no idea how that would improve anything. Copper plating on lead has had a few plusses touted over the years, protecting lead from hot gasses of combustion, helping lead shot slip better through atmosphere, reducing deformation, and slipping more easily through feathers. Which of these is true I don't know.

 

[KEOutdoors]

This annoys the hell out of me as well(20 shells instead of 25). I just didn't want to say anything to avoid seeming like a whiner. It is ironic they came out with steel, because in so much media I've heard the company owners bashing it to no end. I suppose it's a way to make more money and expand the company, which I have no problem with. Competition is good for the marketplace. Copper plating on steel, I have no idea how that would improve anything. Copper plating on lead has had a few plusses touted over the years, protecting lead from hot gasses of combustion, helping lead shot slip better through atmosphere, reducing deformation, and slipping more easily through feathers. Which of these is true I don't know.

Federal tried copper plated steel in their old "classic" gray box line of steel shot in the 90s. It makes no difference at all, other than helping to protect the shot from rusting (like zinc steel does).

Boss makes and copper washes their bismuth shot in house, so im guessing when they bought the steel they decided why not run it through the copper bath for better marketability.

I am sure the BOSS fanboys will be saying the copper steel drops birds like TSS.

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

I saw a video comparing penetration. Plated steel penetrated the deepest,closely followed by true round steel and then coming in last was lower quality steel shot. It was pretty unscientific,,, a couple of rounds of each through ballistic gel. But there was a pretty significant difference between the top and bottom.
I wonder how boss comes up with 30 yards for their steel. It’s supposed to pattern 95 percent.Against those numbers where do they cut bismuth off at 36? I doubt it , the steel line is just a way to pull people into the boss brand knowing that some if not most will switch over to bismuth in the future

 

[gimruis]

35 to 40 yards is a long shot in pheasant cover. 60 yards is a waste of ammunition and birds.

I don't even raise my gun at those ranges.

I've patterned my gun for closer shots anyways with an IC and higher velocity ammo. Even a 40 yard shot is generally destined for failure.

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

I saw a video comparing penetration. Plated steel penetrated the deepest,closely followed by true round steel and then coming in last was lower quality steel shot. It was pretty unscientific,,, a couple of rounds of each through ballistic gel. But there was a pretty significant difference between the top and bottom.
I wonder how boss comes up with 30 yards for their steel. It’s supposed to pattern 95 percent.Against those numbers where do they cut bismuth off at 36? I doubt it , the steel line is just a way to pull people into the boss brand knowing that some if not most will switch over to bismuth in the future

After some of the shell dissection's on here, I would really scrutinize the method of these types of videos. Specifically the size of shot. If two shells claim to be say #3 size but one is actually like a 2.5 or even 2, then it's clearly going to penetrate deeper regardless of the plating. But being slightly bigger gives less pellets. So unless they dissect the shells and show each have x pellets and weighs x amount total, it quickly becomes apples to oranges comparison.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

However what needs to be said is that a lot of guys 30yd shots are 40+, and their 40 yard pokes are pushing 60yds... Thats why a lot of hunters struggle with clean hits, the birds are way way out there long past where your gun is choked for. Shots often seem closer when you have a pointer stretching out to 75yds and you only get half way when he goes on point before the bird flushes, thats a 50yd shot by the time you pull that trigger.

Cant tell you how many times ive assisted someone at the pattern board and ranged my board at 40yds for them to say "thats not 40, no way". Sometimes they argue and claim the range finder is broken. Or setting decoys dove hunting when i range the spinner at 30 yards and say dont shoot past the spinners, and they say its only 15yds

I agree. Many hunters, especially "casual" pheasant hunters, don't have a good grasp on range of their shots or truly effective range of their loads (much less their shooting ability). I used to see it all the time back when I regularly used to hunt with relatively inexperienced hunters. And today it's all over YouTube. People blazing away at a nearly straight-away bird that's 50+. Practically zero chance of dropping that bird, much less killing it. (Yes, I understand it's hard to accurately gauge range on YouTube. I've watched many tons of pheasant videos though, and you do start to get a feel for it.)

 

[KEOutdoors]

I saw a video comparing penetration. Plated steel penetrated the deepest,closely followed by true round steel and then coming in last was lower quality steel shot. It was pretty unscientific,,, a couple of rounds of each through ballistic gel. But there was a pretty significant difference between the top and bottom.
I wonder how boss comes up with 30 yards for their steel. It’s supposed to pattern 95 percent.Against those numbers where do they cut bismuth off at 36? I doubt it , the steel line is just a way to pull people into the boss brand knowing that some if not most will switch over to bismuth in the future

The plated may have been 15fps faster. Only way to test is to shoot one BB through a regulated air powered barrel and chorograph each shot, throwing out ones that are different from the base line.

Boss says 30yds for steel so they can still sell their bismuth as the hammer of thor

 

[LittleBigHorn22]

I agree. Many hunters, especially "casual" pheasant hunters, don't have a good grasp on range of their shots or truly effective range of their loads (much less their shooting ability). I used to see it all the time back when I regularly used to hunt with relatively inexperienced hunters. And today it's all over YouTube. People blazing away at a nearly straight-away bird that's 50+. Practically zero chance of dropping that bird, much less killing it. (Yes, I understand it's hard to accurately gauge range on YouTube. I've watched many tons of pheasant videos though, and you do start to get a feel for it.)

This comes up a lot, but I still don't really know how hunters are suppose to get a grasp on appropriate range. It seems the main method is simply by shooting a lot of pheasant and seeing which does and doesn't work. It's not like big game where you can say shoot at anything under x yards by range finder, or with decoying where you pick land marks and shoot inside that. Gauging appropriate distance on an upland bird means you need to see a lot of those birds flushed and then either told if it was appropriate range, or by shooting and finding out. Sometimes I feel like experienced hunter berate newer hunters too much for the long shots because the experience hunters have learned the lesson, by trying those long shots in the first place. Which seem a bit unfair to me. Not that I'm saying hunters should shoot at every bird they see and certainly should not hope for the "golden pellet", but I think some more understanding should be given to new hunters.

But if anyone does have specific drills you can practice on this sort of thing, I would love to hear it.

 

[Golden Hour]

This comes up a lot, but I still don't really know how hunters are suppose to get a grasp on appropriate range. It seems the main method is simply by shooting a lot of pheasant and seeing which does and doesn't work. It's not like big game where you can say shoot at anything under x yards by range finder, or with decoying where you pick land marks and shoot inside that. Gauging appropriate distance on an upland bird means you need to see a lot of those birds flushed and then either told if it was appropriate range, or by shooting and finding out. Sometimes I feel like experienced hunter berate newer hunters too much for the long shots because the experience hunters have learned the lesson, by trying those long shots in the first place. Which seem a bit unfair to me. Not that I'm saying hunters should shoot at every bird they see and certainly should not hope for the "golden pellet", but I think some more understanding should be given to new hunters.

But if anyone does have specific drills you can practice on this sort of thing, I would love to hear it.

Even if a guy shoots at a lot of birds, circumstances will often dictate the willingness or lack thereof to take shots. If it's been a couple hours of hunting and I haven't pulled the trigger, I'm much more likely to take a long shot than if I've got a couple birds in the vest. Likewise, I'll take much longer shots over an open/snowy field than I would ever consider in the cattails.

I don't think that a person can ever be truly capable of judging distance super accurately and consistently, but we can learn where the likelihood of a clean harvest starts to decline precipitously.

 

[Goosemaster]

I agree. Many hunters, especially "casual" pheasant hunters, don't have a good grasp on range of their shots or truly effective range of their loads (much less their shooting ability). I used to see it all the time back when I regularly used to hunt with relatively inexperienced hunters. And today it's all over YouTube. People blazing away at a nearly straight-away bird that's 50+. Practically zero chance of dropping that bird, much less killing it. (Yes, I understand it's hard to accurately gauge range on YouTube. I've watched many tons of pheasant videos though, and you do start to get a feel for it.)

I can't believe these huge groups of guys lining up in a field. (That they paid some guy.) Limp noodles for sure.

 

[KEOutdoors]

This comes up a lot, but I still don't really know how hunters are suppose to get a grasp on appropriate range. It seems the main method is simply by shooting a lot of pheasant and seeing which does and doesn't work. It's not like big game where you can say shoot at anything under x yards by range finder, or with decoying where you pick land marks and shoot inside that. Gauging appropriate distance on an upland bird means you need to see a lot of those birds flushed and then either told if it was appropriate range, or by shooting and finding out. Sometimes I feel like experienced hunter berate newer hunters too much for the long shots because the experience hunters have learned the lesson, by trying those long shots in the first place. Which seem a bit unfair to me. Not that I'm saying hunters should shoot at every bird they see and certainly should not hope for the "golden pellet", but I think some more understanding should be given to new hunters.

But if anyone does have specific drills you can practice on this sort of thing, I would love to hear it.

What helped me a ton was shooting paper. You get a visual on how big your target is while looking down the barrel and how far it looks using ground relation, and eventually its just instinct. My brain thinks of the yardage the bird flushes at to know if its going to be worth shouldering the gun (looking at the ground, not bird), for pointers i make a mental note how far the dog is as im walking up and then where the bird flushes in relation to the dog helps determin if its an okay shot to take. From there its a mental calculation of how fast the bird is going and how long its taking me to shoulder and get on the bird. Usually a shooter knows their reaction time and if its going to be a doable shot as the bird flushes, knowing its 42 vs 37 is moot. Slow reaction time is where guys miscalculate, they see the bird as "in range" then by the time they shoulder the gun and get a shot off its 15 yards past "in range" and that 30 yard bird is 45 and probably past your chokes ability for clean kill.

Theres 50 things happening in slow motion in my head every time a shot is going to be taken, how far was the flush, is it a rooster, how fast is the rooster going (is a lead required), is the dog/buddy clear, whats behind the bird, make sure the gun is level and click off safety, finally swing and shoot. All of this happens in a fraction of a second in my mind.

But playing with a range finder on flying birds (not pheasant) helped me too. When i am bored in the duck blind or dove field I pull out the range finder and try to guess ranges of birds as i press the button. You can do it on trees or other objects as well, just think of a yardage you think it is and double check. Most people are 10+ yards off when you get past 30.

I assume theres plenty of people who do no calculations and are completely absent minded as they are shooting birds, and thats fine.. but man would it be hard to get proficient that way. I feel you would just be guessing and poking the whole time and not really learn at all until you are thousands of shots in.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Sometimes I feel like experienced hunter berate newer hunters too much for the long shots because the experience hunters have learned the lesson, by trying those long shots in the first place.

If I came off as berating, it was unintended. It's simply something I've seen alot & I agree with KEO that it's one reason people have a tough time killing birds sometimes. Obviously, hunting a lot & being TOLD a shot is too long or not helps establish an idea of appropriate range. But so do many other things. Patterning at known ranges. Shooting clay targets. Practicing range estimation. Etc. I'll be walking along & see an object, estimate it's distance, & step it off to see how close I was. Find a way to spend some time on a football field. It helps you get good at walking off distances, & gives you a better idea of what 20, 30, 40, 50 yds really looks like. I wasn't a football player, but honestly, my time in marching band in another lifetime helped a lot with this.