Dog feeding

[Flush em up]

I have a female 55 lbs British yellow lab which world revolves around food. I know everyone says labs can eat until they puke which this would be definetly the case with her. I currently feed her a cup and a half 5am and 5pm (get home from work). On the weekends even when she doesn't hunt, around 1 I clock she acts like she's starving whining and what not. As soon as you feed her she is back to normal. I am wondering if anyone else has ran into this with there labs or any dog. She is right where she should be weight wise. You can just see the back rib. Should I feed her more in the mornings and less at night? DU TV says feed once a day in the evening so they have the energy for the next day. My dog would never last 24 hours on 1 feed. What are your thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Gatzby]

I have a female 55 lbs British yellow lab which world revolves around food. I know everyone says labs can eat until they puke which this would be definetly the case with her. I currently feed her a cup and a half 5am and 5pm (get home from work). On the weekends even when she doesn't hunt, around 1 I clock she acts like she's starving whining and what not. As soon as you feed her she is back to normal. I am wondering if anyone else has ran into this with there labs or any dog. She is right where she should be weight wise. You can just see the back rib. Should I feed her more in the mornings and less at night? DU TV says feed once a day in the evening so they have the energy for the next day. My dog would never last 24 hours on 1 feed. What are your thoughts?

Thanks[/

Your dog has trained you to feed her when she wants! Likely she's just bored and not even hungry. Stand tough and stick to a feeding routine no matter how much she bitches. She will figure it out surprisingly quick (she's pretty smart, she trained you) just kidding.
I like once a day feedings for adult dogs as it's easier and they do better absorbing the nutrition. (Per Purina).

 

[Dakotazeb]

Gatzby, is right. She is doing a good job of training YOU. Some dogs do just want to eat all the time. You need to stick to a feeding schedule. I have always fed just once a day in the late afternoon or early evening. Dogs do better when hunting and running on an empty stomach. The dog is getting the same amount of food no matter how many times a day you feed her. If she is getting 3 cups total per day try feeding all 3 cups in the evening (once a day) and see how it goes. Stick to that schedule and your dog will adjust.

 

[KSBrittman]

Exactly what my vet said as well , I have always been afraid of a twisted stomach on my dogs , once a day in the evening is the way to go .

 

[westksbowhunter]

Your dog will last with 1 feeding a day.

 

[Chestle]

This topic will generate various opinions because like ....noses....everyone has an opinion on it.

I have Labs. I feed twice a day. They get half their ration at ~ 7AM and the other half at 5PM. These times can vary during hunting season.

As to my view on the 2x, it is simply a fact that Labs are rather high up on the list of dog breeds subject to GDV (Gastric Distention and Volvulus = stomach twist or torsion which is potentially a fatal problem.) A family member lost a truly spectacular German Shorthair to GDV; it's a very ugly experience.

As a view towards preventing GDV: http://avetsguidetolife.blogspot.com/2011/02/preventing-bloat.html

Here are precautions to take to help prevent this deadly condition:

* Wait at least one hour after eating or drinking before allowing exercise. This is the main factor shown to prevent bloat.

* Don't encourage your dog to roll over. Though a low risk, the twisting action has been shown to lead to bloat. In fact, some veterinarians do not rotate a dog over their back while anesthetized due to this risk.

* Feed 2-3 meals during the day rather than one large meal. However, be sure that you're taking the measured amount of daily food and dividing it into the meals rather than giving the once daily amount two or three times.

* Don't allow excessive water drinking immediately before or after a meal. Abnormal amounts of water have the potential to delay breakdown of food and lead to gas production.

* DO NOT raise the food bowl. While this was at one time thought to prevent bloat, a study in 2000 showed that this can actually increase the risk.

* Dogs who have had episodes of GDV are at risk for further occurrences. A surgery can be performed to attach the outside lining of the stomach to the body wall (gastropexy). While this doesn't completely prevent the stomach from rotating, it does lower the risk. Some advocate having this surgery performed routinely on high-risk breeds, but personally I disagree. Even in breeds that are prone to bloat most will never have this happen, and I don't think the benefits of the procedure (since it's not a guarantee that it will never happen) outweigh the risks. Remember, this is only in cases of preventative surgery. I certainly do think that it should be done in a dog who has bloated once since they show a personal tendency.

Now, as I said, 2X is just my opinion. 2X has never been an inconvenience for me as the non-hunting season times coincide with my daily schedule. During the season, the dogs always get fed at least 3-5 hours prior to shooting time in SD, about 2+ hours prior in "sun up" shooting states like KS. I'm up getting ready anyway and they are only getting a 1/2 ration. This is a rather light stomach load of a quality food, for my small dogs as little as 3/4 of a cup, 1 cup for the bigger male. I think this minimizes my chance of GDV. In my 35+ years with many Labs, I've never had a GDV problem doing it this way.

I have also never found a need to feed anything else during the hunting day to keep the dogs energy up. I haven't had to use "performance bars", etc. Mostly, they just need to be kept hydrated which is why there is a 5 gallon jerry can of water in my truck.

Now your mileage may vary and I respect the opinion of once a day feeders. Do what works for you. Certainly a dog can make it once a day feeding, no question.

There's a lot of conflicting information out there on this topic and like most things, people do what make sense to them.

 

[Dakotazeb]

Hey, if feeding 2-3 times a day works for you and has no negative effect on your dog go for it. However, most breeders and many of the field trialers feed once a day. My vets for the most part have always recommended once a day. They claim it is easier to control a dogs weight with once a day feeding. They don't know why, it just seems to work.

How often you feed may also depend somewhat on the breed of dog. I'm not saying that Labs don't work hard in the field but probably not as hard as a fast, hard charging Brittany, GSP, etc. Guess it's just another thing to think about and cause more discussion.

 

[birdshooter]

https://www.purinaproclub.com/resource-library/todays-breeder/issue-75/feeding-for-performance/

Purina spends more money into researching canine nutrition than anyone. There scientists, the ones with PHD in front of there title claim feeding no less than 10 to 12 hours before strenious exercise is best. It takes 23 hours to empty the colon. If followed The end result is the dog runs cooler with more endurance. You lesson the chance of loose stools. The other thing I thought was interesting in the article was how fat, not protein or carbs contributed to lasting endurance. So feeding a diet high in fat as well as quality protein seems to be best.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Hmmm...never given this much thought before. I've always been a 2x a day feeder. I think it started because that's what the vet recommended when I got my first puppy years ago & I never asked again. Maybe I ought to switch to just once in the evening, particularly during hunting season. Buzz & I seldom put in more than 3-4 hours of actual hunting per day, but I always have kind of thought, "You're going to work hard today; you're going to need breakfast." I should ask my vet & see if I ought to re-think that. That said, once hunting season starts & he realizes "Hey, Dad didn't go to work today," it only takes 1 weekend for him to figure out that he's got a pretty good chance of going hunting that day. Then he follows me around continually until we leave (whether it's 9 a.m. or 2 p.m.) & much of the time doesn't touch his breakfast. I'm pretty sure it's because he's excited & wants to make sure I don't go anywhere without him. But I suppose there's a slight chance he's not eating because he knows it's best for his health/performance, but I doubt it. During the time we're hunting, he's never overly interested in treats, particularly when we're out in the field. Back at the truck might be a different story, but he usually is much more interested in water (at any time). He ALWAYS eats like a hog AFTER we get home from hunting. Maybe that's a better scenario than I ever realized. Thanks for starting & contributing to this topic!

 

[birdshooter]

Hmmm...never given this much thought before. I've always been a 2x a day feeder. I think it started because that's what the vet recommended when I got my first puppy years ago & I never asked again. Maybe I ought to switch to just once in the evening, particularly during hunting season. Buzz & I seldom put in more than 3-4 hours of actual hunting per day, but I always have kind of thought, "You're going to work hard today; you're going to need breakfast." I should ask my vet & see if I ought to re-think that. That said, once hunting season starts & he realizes "Hey, Dad didn't go to work today," it only takes 1 weekend for him to figure out that he's got a pretty good chance of going hunting that day. Then he follows me around continually until we leave (whether it's 9 a.m. or 2 p.m.) & much of the time doesn't touch his breakfast. I'm pretty sure it's because he's excited & wants to make sure I don't go anywhere without him. But I suppose there's a slight chance he's not eating because he knows it's best for his health/performance, but I doubt it. During the time we're hunting, he's never overly interested in treats, particularly when we're out in the field. Back at the truck might be a different story, but he usually is much more interested in water (at any time). He ALWAYS eats like a hog AFTER we get home from hunting. Maybe that's a better scenario than I ever realized. Thanks for starting & contributing to this topic!

To be honest with ya I'm a 2X day feeder myself, just NOT on days I will be hunting. I probably only get out once a week during the season so it's not that big an issue to switch to an evening feed on hunt day. The night before a hunt I feed just a little extra topped with maybe a teaspoon of olive oil on their food for extra fat. Seems to work for my two GSP's.

If you think about what the article had to say it kind of makes sense. Can't be very comfortable for the dog to be running with stomach with food in it. There was a time I did feed a small portion 2-3 hours before the hunt and I would always notice loose stools, sometimes with a little blood mixed in it during the hunt. Since I switched to not feeding the morning of the hunt this has all but disappeared.

P.S. I think you will find that many Vets do not have an extensive education in canine nutrition as do the research people at Purina for instance.

 

[Dakotazeb]

P.S. I think you will find that many Vets do not have an extensive education in canine nutrition as do the research people at Purina for instance.

I also find vets are not real experienced in dealing with high powered hunting and field trial dogs. I think the majority of the dogs they see are overweight house dogs. Just my observation.

 

[Birddog23]

I see your very aware of GDV but yet you feed your dogs 3-5 hours before going hunting?

I have also done this, and now I am feeding the night before and not feeding the morning of hunting. That food can sit in the stomach for up to 12 hours. This restricts the blood flow of the dog while hunting, because it's putting effort into the digestion of the food from the morning feeding. The last time I went hunting, I did not feed that morning, just the night before. I will more than likely do this from now on.

Just my opinion, but I sure wouldn't want to be fed only once a day! But, if it works for you, then by all means, do it.

This topic will generate various opinions because like ....noses....everyone has an opinion on it.

I have Labs. I feed twice a day. They get half their ration at ~ 7AM and the other half at 5PM. These times can vary during hunting season.

As to my view on the 2x, it is simply a fact that Labs are rather high up on the list of dog breeds subject to GDV (Gastric Distention and Volvulus = stomach twist or torsion which is potentially a fatal problem.) A family member lost a truly spectacular German Shorthair to GDV; it's a very ugly experience.

As a view towards preventing GDV: http://avetsguidetolife.blogspot.com/2011/02/preventing-bloat.html



Now, as I said, 2X is just my opinion. 2X has never been an inconvenience for me as the non-hunting season times coincide with my daily schedule. During the season, the dogs always get fed at least 3-5 hours prior to shooting time in SD, about 2+ hours prior in "sun up" shooting states like KS. I'm up getting ready anyway and they are only getting a 1/2 ration. This is a rather light stomach load of a quality food, for my small dogs as little as 3/4 of a cup, 1 cup for the bigger male. I think this minimizes my chance of GDV. In my 35+ years with many Labs, I've never had a GDV problem doing it this way.

I have also never found a need to feed anything else during the hunting day to keep the dogs energy up. I haven't had to use "performance bars", etc. Mostly, they just need to be kept hydrated which is why there is a 5 gallon jerry can of water in my truck.

Now your mileage may vary and I respect the opinion of once a day feeders. Do what works for you. Certainly a dog can make it once a day feeding, no question.

There's a lot of conflicting information out there on this topic and like most things, people do what make sense to them.

 

[birdshooter]

I think GDV is just another reason for not feeding before strenuous exercise. Some breeds are more susceptible to this than others. The notion that we as humans would not want to be fed only once a day is irrelevant. WE are NOT dogs, we aren't remotely the same. Plain and simple you are doing your dog a disservice to feed less than 10 to 12 hours before strenuous exercise. You may not have had any real issues to speak of, but your not getting all you can get from your canine athlete if you do. Of course this is all predicated that your dog is already in moderate state of conditioning. A dog that is-out-of shape is just that and sound nutrition and feeding post workout is not going to make up for that.

excerpt from the article posted earlier:

"Generally, performance dogs should be fed a minimum of 10 to 12 hours before exercise," Zanghi says. "It is best to feed the night before a trial that is scheduled the next morning. When dogs are fed six hours or sooner before exercise, the body's fat burning enzymes are not optimized, which contributes to reduced endurance and energy generation. Studies have shown that endurance performance can be as much as doubled when dogs run on an empty stomach compared to having eaten four or less hours before exercise

The research is there and has been proven by the folks at Purina. If you still doubt the facts then run your own experimentation and feed post hunt or exercise over the course the season and make your own determination.

 

[Birddog23]

AGREE!!!

Right on the money!

I think GDV is just another reason for not feeding before strenuous exercise. Some breeds are more susceptible to this than others. The notion that we as humans would not want to be fed once a day is irrelevant. WE are NOT dogs, we aren't remotely the same. Plain and simple you are doing your dog a disservice to feed less than 10 to 12 hours before strenuous exercise. You may not have had any real issues to speak of, but your not getting all you can get from your canine athlete if you do. Of course this is all predicated that your dog is already in moderate state of conditioning. A dog that is-out-of shape is just that and nutrition is not going to make up for that.

excerpt from the article posted earlier:



The research is there and has been proven by the folks at Purina. If you still doubt the facts then run your own experimentation and feed post hunt or exercise over the course the season and make your own determination.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

This is good stuff guys, thanks!! I was pretty much clueless about this topic.

 

[outdoorslife89]

Great discussion! I have an 11 mo old 55lb Lab on PPP sport 30/20. She is getting fed twice a day, 7am and 5pm. On hunting or strenuous days she does not get her morning ration. Her breakfast basically becomes lunch and then her normal dinner time rations. First thought after reading this was; should I just give a full days worth the night before the hunt, then the evening after the hunt would go back to her normal amount? or continue what I've been doing?

Also, Ill look it up but would like your opinions. When is a good age for labs to switch to once a day feeding? Its not a problem but if we go to once a day feeding it would rid my first thought.

 

[Birddog23]

I would feed the night before hunting, maybe a little later like 7 or 8 o'clock. Feed more than usual if hunting because they'll need the nutrients for the next days hunt, they need the extra calories.

Then the day you hunt, feed that evening the same way, more food because they've burned those calories from a long day of hunting. Don't feed the morning of hunting!

Great discussion! I have an 11 mo old 55lb Lab on PPP sport 30/20. She is getting fed twice a day, 7am and 5pm. On hunting or strenuous days she does not get her morning ration. Her breakfast basically becomes lunch and then her normal dinner time rations. First thought after reading this was; should I just give a full days worth the night before the hunt, then the evening after the hunt would go back to her normal amount? or continue what I've been doing?

Also, Ill look it up but would like your opinions. When is a good age for labs to switch to once a day feeding? Its not a problem but if we go to once a day feeding it would rid my first thought.

 

[outdoorslife89]

I would feed the night before hunting, maybe a little later like 7 or 8 o'clock. Feed more than usual if hunting because they'll need the nutrients for the next days hunt, they need the extra calories.

Then the day you hunt, feed that evening the same way, more food because they've burned those calories from a long day of hunting. Don't feed the morning of hunting!

Thanks for the quick reply! The one thing I don't do is feed the morning of. Im glad I read up on that while she was still extremely young before her first strenuous training activity/hunt. Not sure if I made it sound like I did feed the am of the hunt but my apologies if I did.

Thanks for the advice too Birddog! Ill make sure to increase the calories nigh before and after.

 

[Chestle]

As I said, I do what has been working well for me.

Hunting is not trialing, nor is it training.

Back in the years I when I only hunted one dog, she hunted with me from sunup to sundown in KS and we'd go for my entire two week vacation. Never a problem with her endurance. That's not the same as a weekend trial or relatively short daily training sessions. Now I usually hunt two dogs for a 10 day stretch, rotating each thru the day. No problems with endurance or weight loss or bloody stool or anything remotely disconcerting.

As for food in the stomach, Purina also recommends feeding a sports performance bar just 30 minutes before activity.

The Pro Plan SPORT PRiME Bar is a pre-exercise protein-rich supplement bar to be fed 30 minutes prior to activity so key protein building blocks are digested and absorbed into the blood to help keep muscles strong during exercise. “The purpose is to delay or minimize the natural muscle protein breakdown that occurs with exercise,” explains Purina Nutrition Scientist Brian Zanghi, Ph.D.

https://www.purinaproclub.com/resou...na-pro-plan-sport-bars-help-fuel-active-dogs/

That would be food in the stomach, no? As I said, my smaller dogs get 3/4 cup and the male gets 1 cup. Neither is a heavy load of food.

As to an "empty stomach", just how long does it take for a dog's stomach to empty? UC Davis vet school says two hours. So...my dog's stomach is empty when we start to hunt.

Your doctor should indicate when to give your animals medications with food. If nothing is stated, then it is probably safe to give on an empty stomach with water. This means one hour before eating or two hours after.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/pharmacy/faqs.cfm

T There was a time I did feed a small portion 2-3 hours before the hunt and I would always notice loose stools, sometimes with a little blood mixed in it during the hunt. Since I switched to not feeding the morning of the hunt this has all but disappeared.

This would conflict with what you posted earlier, would it not?

It takes 23 hours to empty the colon.

Seems like what you fed 2-3 hours wouldn't make it out of the colon for another 20 hours?

Anyway, I am certainly not trying to persuade anyone, anywhere on how/what/when to feed their dogs.

I am just presenting what I do, what has worked very well for me and what I am going to continue to do. As I have mentioned before, my best friend and hunting partner is a Vet and we have worked together to breed our line of dogs. He feeds just like I do.

I'm not looking to start arguments or cause enmity, so I'll bow out of this. I've stated my position and that's all I really intended.

Good luck and good hunting to you all!

 

[Birddog23]

When I've gone out to the Training grounds to run my dog on marking/marks, I would give him a little bit of his food about 2-3 hours before I would run him. One day a few weeks ago, he ran some longer marks, got back to the truck and drank some water, maybe too much, and I came back later to find out he had thrown up in his kennel. So after feeding him 4 hours or so prier that morning, the food was not digested and still in the form he ate it that morning, soft and slighter bigger probable from the water/juices in stomach. I've always been very careful about not feeding him and then running him afterwards. I typically always give them 4-5 hours before running him.

So I just recently about 2 weeks ago before going hunting the next day, fed the night before, and nothing in the morning at all before the hunt or training. I am going to stick with that and see how it goes. I think it makes absolute sense!