Chasing lab

J

James O

Member
I have to 1 year old lab that I have been pheasant hunting quite a bit on game farms in California.She is doing better and better flushing birds and retrieving
My question is how to stop her from galloping at full speed on a running pheasant.i have a e coller on her she quarters pretty good with tone.But this can
Not stop her on running pheasant .I am afraid to hit her with a bit of shock from collor I don't want her to think she is not suppose to chase.i did zap her one time
She jumped in air then kept going.she comes back I think knowing something is not right.i just look at her shaking my head
Any advice would be great
Jim
 
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Years ago I spoke to a trainer about this behavior - chasing.

He indicated some dogs are difficult to control when chasing - he has stimulated dogs up to 25? times a day - some just don't get it and it takes lots of zaps to hold them back. "Tone" probably isn't enough to turn the dog. He isn't supposed to "chase" anything. If allowed to continue to chase (deer, rabbits, anything that moves) he's hunting/chasing by himself. This is not good.

Collar conditioning and lots of training will correct the chasing dog...
 
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Whoa... It sounds as if she is not properly collar conditioned. If that's the case, stop using the e-collar! She may make the wrong association and start blinking birds.

Go back to your basic obedience and collar conditioning. She should sit EVERY time you command it. Is she line steady? If she's not, how can you expect her to sit with that much temptation.
 
James O said:
I have to 1 year old lab that I have been pheasant hunting quite a bit on game farms in California.She is doing better and better flushing birds and retrieving
My question is how to stop her from galloping at full speed on a running pheasant.i have a e coller on her she quarters pretty good with tone.But this can
Not stop her on running pheasant .I am afraid to hit her with a bit of shock from collor I don't want her to think she is not suppose to chase.i did zap her one time
She jumped in air then kept going.she comes back I think knowing something is not right.i just look at her shaking my head
Any advice would be great
Jim
Click to expand...

First put the e-collar in the drawer and do not put it on the dog until you read, reread, and read again about collar conditioning! E-collars are only for enforcing knowen commands, not teaching. If after you have read about collar conditioning and still have questions I will be more than happy to help with any questions.
PS I doubt any lasting damage has been done to your dog by a random zap or two. But a few more and you just might make your job tougher.
Steve
 
I'd go back to basics and work on "hup" training. You can do this in the house, the yard...anywhere. Start small, work up, allow for no exceptions.

I'm still delighted when I use it on my Springer, who came to me at 5 or 6 years old and completely untrained. He doesn't skid to a halt, but he stops right away. He's 10 or 11 now, and I reinforce as needed, like when we walk down to the mailbox. I'll hup him, walk far past him, then give the OK.



Best wishes. Be patient.
 
Needs to learn the "whoa" command.
 
Mark...I agree.

However, if the dog is 30 yards out, nose to the ground and in "gallop mode" I doubt if his mind is focused on listening to any command; seems dogs have selective hearing some of the time, especially on a running rooster.

I use the tone button when I can see Max is thinking about the chase or appears to be in "chase mode." No response to the tone or he doesn't turn, additional stimulation is applied.

Works for me.
 
Chasing

Thanks guys
Not realy trained dog well.I was looking for a good pet to go hunting with.
And that is what I got.I think I will work on trying to slow her down.
She's alot of fun to watch.i will be in s Dakota for 10 days in dec
I will see what she can do with wild birds..
Thanks again jim
Ps any good books on collar conditioning?
 
jonnyB said:
Mark...I agree.

However, if the dog is 30 yards out, nose to the ground and in "gallop mode" I doubt if his mind is focused on listening to any command; seems dogs have selective hearing some of the time, especially on a running rooster.

I use the tone button when I can see Max is thinking about the chase or appears to be in "chase mode." No response to the tone or he doesn't turn, additional stimulation is applied.

Works for me.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying about temptation, but "hup" means "hup" regardless of whatever else is going on. If a dog is ALLOWED to ignore a command, then it WILL! What you condone, you own!

On a side note JonnyB, your dogs must have a good lawyer!:D
 
jonnyB said:
Mark...I agree.

However, if the dog is 30 yards out, nose to the ground and in "gallop mode" I doubt if his mind is focused on listening to any command; seems dogs have selective hearing some of the time, especially on a running rooster.

I use the tone button when I can see Max is thinking about the chase or appears to be in "chase mode." No response to the tone or he doesn't turn, additional stimulation is applied.

Works for me.
Click to expand...

Hi
That is exactly what happens I will try to catch her quicker did not know how to
To Handel I can tell when she is ready to bolt
 
James: glad to help with your "chasing" dog.

Your dog is exhibiting a strong "prey drive." While this is a good thing, you don't want the dog to chase; you want him to hunt in front of you and within gun range.

On the other hand, I assume you want him to run-down a cripple. I use "dead bird" or fetch. He knows he's allowed to chase a cripple, but that situation/circumstance is usually very different. Max will bolt when the gun goes off and sees the bird falling - then the chase is on.

Lots of hunting and birds will help polish your dog...and you!
 
Don't put the collar away, just don't turn it on!!!!. First the dog needs to where the collar, otherwise you end up with a collar wise dog.

First step is to stop hunting the dog and start training it. You need to teach the dog basic obedience with a lead. Once your dog understands obedience, generally a 4-6 week process, you can begin collar conditioning. Sounds like the dog is running the show. You can't expect to control the dog in the field if it can't be controlled in the yard. Now everyone's definition of control is different, so you will have to be the judge of that. But every hunting dog should go through a basic obedience program before ever going to the field.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Don't put the collar away, just don't turn it on!!!!. First the dog needs to where the collar, otherwise you end up with a collar wise dog.

First step is to stop hunting the dog and start training it. You need to teach the dog basic obedience with a lead. Once your dog understands obedience, generally a 4-6 week process, you can begin collar conditioning. Sounds like the dog is running the show. You can't expect to control the dog in the field if it can't be controlled in the yard. Now everyone's definition of control is different, so you will have to be the judge of that. But every hunting dog should go through a basic obedience program before ever going to the field.
Click to expand...

agree, its called force fetch.
 
Chasing

Ok
Thanks I understand more now.i have tom dokkens retreiver training
Book and I started out using book as trainer when she was a pup
I just stopped doing and took her hunting at about 6 months
All chapters on force fetching and blind retrieves and other stuff
I did not bother with I thought that had to do with ducks hunting
I would rather pheasant hunt
I am the one who needs a collar ha ha
To hot to run her around now I live in Palm Springs will start in sept

Great advice thanks jim
 
Hi
Is it better to use tone or vibration or can I use both say tone for quartering and vibration to sit or slow down
 
James O said:
Hi
Is it better to use tone or vibration or can I use both say tone for quartering and vibration to sit or slow down
Click to expand...

Neither. I think you need to study up on what the purpose of a dog wearing an ecollar actually is. The collar will not teach the dog to quarter, you need to do that. The collar will re inforce what you have already taught the dog. I am not trying to be rude, but you are not listening, and seem to be hung up on using your e collar. Your dog is not collar conditioned and by continuing to use it you will only ruin your dog or your dog will never reach its potential. You need to follow a program.


Here is how I teach quartering. I have 2 helpers fanned out 20 yds to my left and right and about 5 yds in front of me. Each with about 5 dummies in hand. As we begin to slowly walk one of the helpers starts waving the dummy yelling hey hey hey getting the dog to run toward the dummy. As the dog gets there I use the twill of the whistle to turn the dog and the other helper start waving the dummy getting the dogs attention and encouraging the dog to run that direction. As the dog is turning I am giving an over with my hands. Then we just keep going back and forth. After a session or 2 we then randomly fire the training pistol and let the dog retrieve a dummy.

By now the dog is learning to quarter. We then graduate to frozen birds, then live shackled birds planted in the field, and then to shooting a live bird at the end of the field.

The dog has now learned to quarter a field and it has absolutely nothing to do with the e collar. Please by the dvd Fowl Dawgs by Rick Stawski. You can get it at gundog supply for about $20. Has a great feature on quartering. You have a lot of work to do before you even think about using that e collar.
 
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This appears to be a good process for a beginning dog - to learn there are hunting boundaries - right and left, and not to go too far either way. There are some exceptions to this; when you're hunting with a buddy that doesn't have a dog and you are sharing yours, the quartering may be a bit extended

Allowing your dog to wander off in front of other hunters, may be appealing to them, however, that's when one usually loses control of the dog.

Your original question was about chasing and I think we've covered the topic...
 
jonnyB said:
This appears to be a good process for a beginning dog - to learn there are hunting boundaries - right and left, and not to go too far either way. There are some exceptions to this; when you're hunting with a buddy that doesn't have a dog and you are sharing yours, the quartering may be a bit extended

Allowing your dog to wander off in front of other hunters, may be appealing to them, however, that's when one usually loses control of the dog.

Your original question was about chasing and I think we've covered the topic...
Click to expand...

That is the purpose of the whistle. The twill will eventually turn the dog and not the helpers waving dummies. Eventually I eliminate the helpers to where it is just me and the dog and birds in the field. There are baby steps to every aspect of training. That is the purpose of the helpers. Training wheels if you will.

As far as wandering off. That could not be further from the truth. Or you simply just don't understand. We build control into the dog with a strong obedience program in the yard. That eventually translates to the field. We can't make corrections in the field until the dog understands what it is supposed to do. If a dog is properly trained through basic obedience, collar conditioning, force fetch, and field training there is no way to loose control. Unless you hunt the dog before it is ready which is generally the case with most hunters.

I like my dog to quarter in front of me, my son, and if there is a 3rd hunter all 3 of is. Working birds for all. Maybe there is a reason that I loose less than 2% of all the birds we shoot.
 
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