When do we start the push for change?

KsHusker

Active member
“ Until then I'll keep hoping we get a disease to wipe out every damn last white tail this state has. I hope and pray to see that day.”

Jebus, that’s a little harsh. Why the hate ?

#1 - I'm a mule deer fan - White tail are like rats - you can shoot one in any of the 50 states -- Mule deer you can not - I'm nearly 42 and since my 20s have watched the mule deer herd in KS go completely down the toilet worse than pheasants have or really about on par.

#2 -- Westks answered about 3 posts up and pretty much sums up my feelings. People are so damn greedy and turn into complete aholes over deer -- lots of good upland ground has been lost due to antler hungry mongrols leasing everything up -- the quality of the deer herd is slowly decreasing IMO where areas are heavily leased - because guess what - the guys leasing or running hunting operations are only going to shoot large bucks - and not take any does or marginal bucks - thus leading to overpopulation, and a decrease in the trophy quality. It's funny - when people allowed deer hunting more openly and it was more of a social sport that everyone got a chance to do and it wasnt about how many inches of antler - I'd argue there were more trophy quality deer due to people being happy to just take an animal - and secondly there were less deer thus maintaining a healthier deer herd. A lot of areas are out of wack in the doe to buck ratio and the deer density.

Anyways I was hopeful that EHD and the drought of 2011-2012 would kill most of the white tails - it sadly did not. Thinned them out in western ks though - but I think the loss of CRP is more responsible for that.
 

GetTothePoint

Active member
#1 - I'm a mule deer fan - White tail are like rats - you can shoot one in any of the 50 states -- Mule deer you can not - I'm nearly 42 and since my 20s have watched the mule deer herd in KS go completely down the toilet worse than pheasants have or really about on par.

#2 -- Westks answered about 3 posts up and pretty much sums up my feelings. People are so damn greedy and turn into complete aholes over deer -- lots of good upland ground has been lost due to antler hungry mongrols leasing everything up -- the quality of the deer herd is slowly decreasing IMO where areas are heavily leased - because guess what - the guys leasing or running hunting operations are only going to shoot large bucks - and not take any does or marginal bucks - thus leading to overpopulation, and a decrease in the trophy quality. It's funny - when people allowed deer hunting more openly and it was more of a social sport that everyone got a chance to do and it wasnt about how many inches of antler - I'd argue there were more trophy quality deer due to people being happy to just take an animal - and secondly there were less deer thus maintaining a healthier deer herd. A lot of areas are out of wack in the doe to buck ratio and the deer density.

Anyways I was hopeful that EHD and the drought of 2011-2012 would kill most of the white tails - it sadly did not. Thinned them out in western ks though - but I think the loss of CRP is more responsible for that.
I think that this deer bubble will burst soon enough. These big deer won't last when every section has multiple hunters nowadays and these guys shoot 140 class bucks and put it all over facebook like they've done something. I used to love to chase the big deer but the commercialization of it has ruined it for me and now the hunting competition is so ridiculous that they're going to ruin this as well. Between Facebook, Cabelas/BP, and these absurd hunting shows these days everyone thinks they're the Great White Hunter anymore.
 

GetTothePoint

Active member
I love nothing more than to see these guys with small eights trying to show them off at the local Cafe and drop the "why did you shoot that little one" on them. I'll gladly piss on that campfire all day
 
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cokid

Member
We need to start demanding to see where all this "habitat" money is going and this crap of producers double dipping (and that's exactly what it is) on wiha funds while grazing or tilling that tract to oblivion has to stop. Everytime you pass a walk in that's bare ground or grazed call it in and complain. Call kdwp and ask why the bird report looks like a cut and paste job each year. Audit your PF and QF chapters and just see where that banquet/fundraising money is going. We're going to have to get the states attention as they are the voice to the farmer to get them to go back to the days where land husbandry meant something. We were raised that no matter how much land you have you leave all of it better than you found it. Not milk it for every penny and consequences be damned.
I've been wondering about this. Is it really "against the rules" to graze and/or plow under tracts enrolled in WIHA? The ones that really get me are the edge-to-edge cover crop fields. I don't mind if there are weedy corners (though seems to me they should only be paid for the corners in those cases), but those dryland fields with nothing but winter cover are ridiculous. I just came back from 3 great days in KS (more on that elsewhere), but did pass several fields that were one or the other. Happens in CO as well. I'd be up for a call/email to whichever powers that be, but I've never been sure what's allowed and what isn't.
 

cokid

Member
This is where I reluctantly say we (hunters) will need environmental groups help. Both for money/research and a larger voice that they have with the government. It going to take proof of this environmental damage that these farming practices are causing for a lawsuit to stick and get changes made. These ag companies have good lawyers and limitless money to fight this or just pay settlements, i.e. roundup, and just keep rolling. There were lawsuits galore first year of these dicamba beans but proving who caused it became difficult. And any lawsuits against the manufacturer were then blamed on the farmer for not following labels.
As a life-long hunter and avid environmentalist, let me just say - it's about time. These two sides have always had more in common than not, it's largely been a "guilt by association" and divide and conquer approach by the opposition that has kept them apart. It drives me crazy when hunters accuse me of being a "tree-hugger", and enviros of being a "hunting slob". I think finally environmentalists are starting to wake up that many/most responsible hunters (i.e., not the ones in all the hunting shows) are really environmentalists at heart.
 

KansasGsp

Active member
I love nothing more than to see these guys with small eights trying to show them off at the local Cafe and drop the "why did you shoot that little one" on them. I'll gladly piss on that campfire all day
Lol, if you asked me that I'd punch you right in the nose! I shoot small eights and proud of every one of them. Ain't always about killing big deer, the more time I spend deer hunting, the less time I get to bird hunt.
 

cokid

Member
Clarified my post referring to dropping paying for a section of poor walk-in. Not getting a section out of production. And I agree it will have to be incentivised and that's why I think convincing farmers to give up a few feet of good producing ground on field edges rather than big pieces would be somewhere to start. Maybe kdwp and nrcs will have to combine some funds together to make it work.
I do think leaving margins is key. I have found in some fairly wide-ranging hunting when I drive by fields that are edge-to-edge clean - regardless if the field itself is any good - there are very few birds around. even marginal fields with 10-20' of weeds/tall stubble/something around the edges can and often do hold birds. It's all about those margins, IMO. Also - in general, is it the counties or the farmers who are doing the clean-up of the barrow ditches? I've often wondered what the big incentive is for doing that. I imagine some county R&B supervisor driving around all proud that his ditches are either dirt, or mowed to 3" or less. I find it just depressing.
 

Birdman2

Active member
If the decline in upland birds continues in the next 10 years like the last 10, nobody will come to KS for Pheasant hunting. The birds will be gone.
 
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GetTothePoint

Active member
If the decline in upland birds continues in the next 10 years like the last 10, nobody will come to KS for Pheasant hunting. They will be gone.
With you guys being NR, what will it take for you to give KS the final wave goodbye? I realize the fun of just getting out hunting in a new state but at some point that wears off.

Call kdwp and let them have it. Tell them the money that you'll no longer be bringing to our state and that you don't appreciate the misleading reports they give you guys that get you to come here and hunt our 1 million acres 🤫😅
 

Birdman2

Active member
Crazy point here. Almost 10 year ago, maybe less, we had the same discussion here. I did call and complain about Whia program, several times. Not sure what it will take to turn it around. Probably a Governor who thinks it is important is my guess.
 

westksbowhunter

Well-known member
With you guys being NR, what will it take for you to give KS the final wave goodbye? I realize the fun of just getting out hunting in a new state but at some point that wears off.

Call kdwp and let them have it. Tell them the money that you'll no longer be bringing to our state and that you don't appreciate the misleading reports they give you guys that get you to come here and hunt our 1 million acres 🤫😅
Why would you call the KDWP? They have no say over anything. They report what they are told to report, it is the legislature that has the power.
 

Birdman2

Active member
My mistake. So you local guys know who to call. Give us a list of people to call and hopefully some will participate.
 

GetTothePoint

Active member
Why would you call the KDWP? They have no say over anything. They report what they are told to report, it is the legislature that has the power.
They're as guilty as the Legislature. I say call/write them both, and do it a lot. KDWP are the managers of these programs as well as the ones responsible for leasing the ground. If they catch a butt chewing enough they'll finally pass it on to the powers that be that they can't keep things going this direction as the people that pay for them to be able to operate are pissed and aren't buying into their BS propaganda any longer. KDWP needs to do its job as the protectors of the state's resources like originally intended.
 
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JSMITH

Member
Can someone give a brief summary of what we should say when we call? I am a resident hunter who has been blessed with private land to hunt, but I want to help.
 

westksbowhunter

Well-known member
I hope pheasant hunting doesn't meet the same doom and fate of the Kansas prairie chicken, but that is probably where its heading. Most of you won't remember but there was a time when prairie chickens would fill the sky. Unless you got to see it, it is hard to imagine. Traveling down what is now 400 east of Wichita, the sky would be black with prairie chickens just before sunset. Must have been around 1988 or so when they just disappeared in an instance. One day they were there, and the next gone for forever. I had read that the population was around 200,000 in 1980 to less than 15,000 today. Better enjoy what is left because farming practices aren't going to change. Cattle, crops, oil, wind turbines are all your going to see. 98.1% of Kansas is private land, that is where the efforts have to go. Programs have to be offered to private land owners to set something back. Unfortunately this is a political issue. I had to come back and add that private land and hunting took care of its self for years. Kansas had habitat on private land that the KDWP didn't have to manage. Now that habitat has changed or just disappeared. Even the turkeys they introduced in the early 80's are now disappearing. Kansas makes a little money from Non Resident deer hunting but there cash cow is the state parks in the forms of boaters, campers, and fisherman not hunting. Their hands are tied. They can manage their 65,000 acres but that won't change anything, it is private land than can and will make a difference.
 
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