unproductive points

12gaugedust

New member
This is just a question and i guess maybe its not really a problem! My dog sometimes goes on unproductive points- which means there was a bird there where he points but nothing there. Just kinda wondering if he will grow out of this and figure it out. But for his first year and probably 7th time out this season i would say hes doing pretty good, hes able to produce me 2 birds at least, i might not hit em all but usually. lol. :p
 
It happens. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've seen some dogs do it more than others and it's really not an issue. As the dog gains more experience/confidence he may learn to discern old scent from fresh scent better and you may see this less often. It could also mean your dealing with a runner, in which case you simply let him relocate. In time you will learn to read your dog and be able to tell by body language and what he is doing with his eyes, whether the point is productive or unproductive. I hate that term "unproductive", the dog is still following what his nose is telling him, so no worries at all.
 
The problem is the conditions, not the dog. In dry, warm conditions, especially with bird numbers down, the birds are very inclined to run from a roost or loafing place rather than hold at point. My dog rarely "false" points but has numerous times this season.
 
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Well im not a big fan of that word either, either way the dog is doing what he is supposed to, but ive heard the word used many times. So thats my best way of describing it. lol. But we usually hunt pen raised birds so they tend to run more than fly, and im starting to understand his body language.
 
It happens. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've seen some dogs do it more than others and it's really not an issue. As the dog gains more experience/confidence he may learn to discern old scent from fresh scent better and you may see this less often. It could also mean your dealing with a runner, in which case you simply let him relocate. In time you will learn to read your dog and be able to tell by body language and what he is doing with his eyes, whether the point is productive or unproductive. I hate that term "unproductive", the dog is still following what his nose is telling him, so no worries at all.

Good post.Learn to read your dog. He/she will tell you what is going on.
 
Well im not a big fan of that word either, either way the dog is doing what he is supposed to, but ive heard the word used many times. So thats my best way of describing it. lol. But we usually hunt pen raised birds so they tend to run more than fly, and im starting to understand his body language.

Yep, it will take some time. One thing I look at is the dog's head/eyes. If you look closely he will tell you whether he/she has a bird. If you notice the head moving ever so slightly side to side as well as the eyes, their not sure. The bird may have been there and or the wind is not quite ideal and blowing the scent all around making it tough to pinpoint the direction. The little things from what he/she is doing will often be the tell tale.

And here is another obvious clue. If you've kicked around brush in front of the dog and don't produce anything, try releasing the dog to relocate. If he won't move..... you better check again. ;)
 
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That made me smile, birdshooter. Check again... That's when the bird is just about to flush right in your face. :thumbsup: that'll get your heart going, no doubt!
 
If you've kicked around brush in front of the dog and don't produce anything, try releasing the dog to relocate. If he won't move..... you better check again. ;)

Ha, ha! I remember when that happened on my setter's first-ever wild-bird point. She locked up in a big patch of thigh-high weeds and I stomped around to no avail, then gave her the okay to move. She wouldn't, so I stomped around some more and tried again. Still wouldn't budge.

For some reason, I looked her in the eye and verbally asked her, "Are you sure?" She glanced up at me briefly, and then returned her steely focus to the ground right in front of her. Just then, a hen busted out.

I'd have given anything for that bird to have been a rooster!
 
The problem is the conditions, not the dog. In dry, warm conditions, especially with bird numbers down, the birds are very inclined to run from a roost or loafing place rather than hold at point. My dog rarely "false" points but has numerous times this season.

Yup, it's happening to me this year too. My GWP false points more than the GSP usually, but this year it seems to be about the same for both dogs. I don't worry about it too much.
 
One thing you can do is circle way out around and walk towards the dog if you know the birds are running. It's not always easy to remember to do.
 
One thing you can do is circle way out around and walk towards the dog if you know the birds are running. It's not always easy to remember to do.

that's what my vizsla does......after relocating about 3 times, he is off, runs out about 70-100 yards in the line he has been working and promptly turns and hunts back to where i am standing.....often locates and pins his birds too.....you can't teach that, but you do need to execute the shot to reinforce the behavior....it is so cool to watch!.....it's just him against the bird!:thumbsup:
 
I would guess every pointing dog owner has false points. When a dog hits that scent the natural thing to do is point. Sometimes the scent is still really fresh even though the bird may have run and left that spot a few minutes before the dog got there. Like someone esle said, learn to read your dog. I will see my dog go on point but not be totally steady, maybe a little flagging going on. Then as I approach she will relocate to try and find the bird. This usually tells me there was a bird there but it moved prior to her point. Sometimes she will be solid on point and by the time I get there I can't find a bird. Tells me there probably was a bird there when she went on point and it ran before I got there. She again will relocate when I can't find the bird. Then there are those times when you walk up to her on point and her eyes are buring holes in the grass/weeds. That's when I know for sure there is a bird right there in front of her. Love those times!
 
And dakotazeb you own brittany's, i dont know if all brittany's hunt the same or act the same, but what you have described is just about what he does. My dog will point, ill get maybe ten yards from him and he moves, starts doing figure eights around the whole area, once he catches that scent he takes off. Only problem is that he hasnt learned how to pin running birds yet. And ive heard that dogs have to learn on there own how to pin birds in between them and the hunter.
 
And dakotazeb you own brittany's, i dont know if all brittany's hunt the same or act the same, but what you have described is just about what he does. My dog will point, ill get maybe ten yards from him and he moves, starts doing figure eights around the whole area, once he catches that scent he takes off. Only problem is that he hasnt learned how to pin running birds yet. And ive heard that dogs have to learn on there own how to pin birds in between them and the hunter.

Actually pinning a running rooster between themselves and the hunter sounds good in theory but is an extremely tough task for a dog. Generally two things are going to happen if the dog gets on the track of a running rooster. The bird will continue to run ahead of the dog and eventually flush well out of range. Or the bird will run ahead and sit in some heavier cover, where it feels safe, allowing the dog to point it again.
 
And that makes sense, im new to this sport, and catch myself now thinking like a pheasant would if he was being hunted. But i always follow my dog, but with control. So in terms i do not like to use the work unproductive point. Because there is always a reason y hes pointing. And when a bird isnt there anymore i dont consider that his fault. Now to touch on another subject: example. The other day we were out in the medium tall grass, He kinda went on a half ass point, waited like 5 seconds and burried his head and nose into the ground and was pushing his head up underneath of clumps of grass. Now was he smelling mice, or could of there been a bird there under the clump but left before we got there?:eek:
 
Now was he smelling mice, or could of there been a bird there under the clump but left before we got there?:eek:

Either one of those scenarios is entirely within the realm of possibility when you're dealing with a young 'un. No way to know for sure which it was.
 
Well i just hope as he gets older and becomes more experinced with these tricky birds that he will learn the old scent to the fresh scent. I can deffenitley tell a difference from the 1rst major hunt till now. Its like it took a major jump. And its to the point where i dont even say anything, he already knows where to go. Now we hunted with to gsps the other weekend and he ended up biting one haha i appoligized to the guy, but the guy said that was good. I just looked at him and said y you say that, he said hes got fire under his ass, and the reason he bite him was because he tried to steal his bird that he retrieved. I mean they were really going at it, i had to shock him to get him off his dog. But it all worked out in the end.
 
No substitute for experience. The more time the dog has in the field the more they learn. This is the first year that my 4 year old female Brittany has really unserstood the command "Dead Bird". She is getting better each time out. Give her the "Dead Bird" command and she immediately goes into search mode. She has dug some downed birds out of some nasty cattails the past couple of weeks. Birds I would have never found without her.
 
HAHAH now another question? Has anyones dog got into a minor scuffle with another dog out in the field over a dead bird. This happened last weekend he got snappy with a gsp that tried to take his retrieve away. I corrected him after we got them apart. But they were both males so that might have something to do with it.
 
Yeah, that happens. Dogs competing for the same bird. One usually becomes very possessive over the bird, especially if they made the retrieve.

A buddy of mine had a dominant female Britt that used to stand over her birds that were lying on the ground by the vehicles at the end of the hunt. Any dog that got within 5 feet of those birds and she let'em know she was going to tear them a new one if they got any closer.
 
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