Howdy all! New member to the forum here. I will be pursuing upland birds for the first time next season, but I have waterfowl, deer, and turkey hunted my whole life. Like me, my dog will be going on his first upland hunts next season. He is a one year old british black lab, and he has done an absolutely incredible job his first waterfowl season. He really is a natural, lots of drive and a nose like a bloodhound. I expect him to do a great job on pheasants and quail this upcoming season as well. I just need some tips on what I need to do to prepare him to transition from the duck blind to the field in pursuit of upland. He's fully trained in terms of heeling, being steady to the shot, and all of the important aspects of waterfowl hunting, but I know that upland bird hunting is a different ballgame. He's very good at finding crippled ducks and geese in tall grass. I use the command "find em" and his nose hits the ground. I also have a place nearby where, for a decent price, a guy will plant my choice of pheasants, quail, or chukar. I wouldn't normally do that type of hunting, but I would do so if you guys think it would be a beneficial way to get him exposed to birds. Any advise you all have about getting my dog and I ready for November is highly appreciated. I can already imagine him flushing a big ol' rooster!
Turning my duck dog into an upland hunter
- Thread starter Kansan
- Start date
Kismet
UPH Guru
Hello and welcome.
Simple-minded me just got some pheasant wings (you can get them online), played with the pup with a ball or something that he likes. Stop. Put a pheasant wing in an old sock, let him smell it or even mouth it, then have him stay--either by command or put him in a closed room, walk around the house a bit,and put the sock down where he'll find it, but not right away.
Go back, and tell him "fetch." When he finds it, praise him extravagantly.
Do it again. More praise.
Again.
Stop. Love him up, put the wing away (out of reach), give him a treat.
Repeat next day and continue until he sees it as a reward or a game.
When you can, go outside and hide the pheasant wing/sock. Bring the pup out and tell him fetch. By this time he will associate it with fun and reward and know what scent to seek out.
Don't get angry, or if you do, stop and put both the dog and yourself somewhere else. This is play/joy/hunt training. No room for anger.
Gonna be fun.
:thumbsup:
Simple-minded me just got some pheasant wings (you can get them online), played with the pup with a ball or something that he likes. Stop. Put a pheasant wing in an old sock, let him smell it or even mouth it, then have him stay--either by command or put him in a closed room, walk around the house a bit,and put the sock down where he'll find it, but not right away.
Go back, and tell him "fetch." When he finds it, praise him extravagantly.
Do it again. More praise.
Again.
Stop. Love him up, put the wing away (out of reach), give him a treat.
Repeat next day and continue until he sees it as a reward or a game.
When you can, go outside and hide the pheasant wing/sock. Bring the pup out and tell him fetch. By this time he will associate it with fun and reward and know what scent to seek out.
Don't get angry, or if you do, stop and put both the dog and yourself somewhere else. This is play/joy/hunt training. No room for anger.
Gonna be fun.
:thumbsup:
I did play with a pheasant wing with him when he was a young pup. He's been hunting ducks this past season, and snow goose the past couple of weeks (and tomorrow) I just didn't know if I needed to anything special to prepare him for a transition to pheasant hunting , or if I just take him out on opening day and let the birds teach him.
IsThisHeaven?
Member
I would get him exposure to birds. I don't really like hunting pen raised birds either but if that's the only way to get bird exposure then I would do that. I have a local guy who sells me pigeons. Some guys keep their own pigeons or trap them. Another option is to go to public land locations if they hold birds and go for a walk. Be careful of the public land option. I live in Iowa. In Iowa you can't be on most public land with a dog after March 15 to protect nesting birds. I would bet Kansas has a similar regulation.
It sounds as though he is pretty well obedience trained. There are only a few commands needed for pheasant hunting. You need a reliable recall. You want to be able to keep him from chasing flushed birds. This is especially important pheasant hunting with not being able to shoot hens and considering the bird's propensity to run. I hunt a Springer and she is trained to quarter, but I am not sure how that goes with Labs.
Retrieving is very important pheasant hunting but it sounds as though you have a good handle on that as well. Hunt dead is a good skill too.
I think you have a good start and some bird exposure and hunting will get you a long way.
It sounds as though he is pretty well obedience trained. There are only a few commands needed for pheasant hunting. You need a reliable recall. You want to be able to keep him from chasing flushed birds. This is especially important pheasant hunting with not being able to shoot hens and considering the bird's propensity to run. I hunt a Springer and she is trained to quarter, but I am not sure how that goes with Labs.
Retrieving is very important pheasant hunting but it sounds as though you have a good handle on that as well. Hunt dead is a good skill too.
I think you have a good start and some bird exposure and hunting will get you a long way.
IRISHWHISTLER
Member
Kansan,
Do a search for George Hickox and order his DVD on Volumes 1-3 on Training The Flushing Retriever. It sells for about $39 total and will be a great source of training info, especially in teaching ye dog to quarter and sit steady to wing, shot, and fall. Totally worth it for somebody with your experience level in training a retriever.
Is your dog a Double TT British Lab???
Irishwhistler
Do a search for George Hickox and order his DVD on Volumes 1-3 on Training The Flushing Retriever. It sells for about $39 total and will be a great source of training info, especially in teaching ye dog to quarter and sit steady to wing, shot, and fall. Totally worth it for somebody with your experience level in training a retriever.
Is your dog a Double TT British Lab???
Irishwhistler
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
Sounds like you've got a dog that should do just great. In my opinion, all exposure to birds is good exposure. So whether it's preserve shooting, taking walks in birdy areas, or whatever....I'd do it if it's feasible. He has to learn that there could be birds around & that it's rewarding to find them.
David0311
You got some good advise in other post--
I would very strongly recommend you get him or her to a shooting preserve--before taking him out on wild especially with a group --
Would be money well spent--take someone else dependable to do the shooting--your job is training
JMO
You got some good advise in other post--
I would very strongly recommend you get him or her to a shooting preserve--before taking him out on wild especially with a group --
Would be money well spent--take someone else dependable to do the shooting--your job is training
JMO
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Kansan,
Do a search for George Hickox and order his DVD on Volumes 1-3 on Training The Flushing Retriever. It sells for about $39 total and will be a great source of training info, especially in teaching ye dog to quarter and sit steady to wing, shot, and fall. Totally worth it for somebody with your experience level in training a retriever.
Is your dog a Double TT British Lab???
Irishwhistler
Yes, he's a Kiffin pup, trained by Dane Johnson at Apex retrievers in Nebraska. That's where Haynes Floyd recommended. He's going back up in a month or so to get blind retrieve training.
I'm fixing to get another Double TT pup in May, a female this time as I'd like to have pups in a few years. To anyone in the market I HIGHLY recommend Double TT. It is an amazing operation and they have exceptional dogs.
And thanks to everyone for the advice!
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Chestle
Well-known member
As folks have said, having good obedience to recall is pretty important.
Your dog will "find 'em" I have absolutely no doubt. Your dog will have the nose, no problem there.
The trick is to "find 'em" in range and put 'em up in range.
In the way back when I was a youngster and old pheasant master told me that pheasants put out enough scent that the dog always thinks he's just one step from catching the bird. So they get on a hot scent, put that nose down and go out pretty fast. I don't know the truth of the scent/catch thing but I do know a dog can get on scent and get out of range pretty dang fast. How long does it take a Lab going flat out to be 50 yards away?
So to me, getting the dog to work in range is the big thing. Do that and the rest seems to fall into place pretty easy.
Your dog will "find 'em" I have absolutely no doubt. Your dog will have the nose, no problem there.
The trick is to "find 'em" in range and put 'em up in range.
In the way back when I was a youngster and old pheasant master told me that pheasants put out enough scent that the dog always thinks he's just one step from catching the bird. So they get on a hot scent, put that nose down and go out pretty fast. I don't know the truth of the scent/catch thing but I do know a dog can get on scent and get out of range pretty dang fast. How long does it take a Lab going flat out to be 50 yards away?
So to me, getting the dog to work in range is the big thing. Do that and the rest seems to fall into place pretty easy.
IRISHWHISTLER
Member
Kansan,
My retriever HR TTF CRAIGHORN KIFFIN TRAD SH is also out of KIFFIN X TARA. Great dog afield and in the hunt test arena. I sent ye a private message. Also welcome to Ultimate Pheasant Hunting.
Cheers,
Irishwhistler
s.davis
Well-known member
I have 2 Double TT dogs (though one is just a pup) and like most well-bred labs, they dont need much formal training to hunt upland birds, which is my primary quarry. Some time training and just exposing them to upland birds at a game farm will be about all they need. If your dog has proper obedience, just keep it shooting range by recalling it or sitting it when it pushes out of range. Do not shoot or shoot at any birds your dog flushes wild, and he will get the idea. If you find you need to, put him on a check cord and have someone else gun for you.
After your dog gets what he's chasing, and you will know when he does, try to work it into as many types of actual pheasant and quail cover as you can (cattails, tallgrass, rowcrops, hedges, etc.) though most dogs will figure out in a season or 2 that that's where birds hide, and that they need to go in to get them up.
You can add refinements like sit to flush and steady to shot or not (there's a thread about this going on right now for some perspective), as you see fit. Those refinements will just about require some work at a game farm. I'd be a little hesitant to teach it to quarter (which is also pretty easy to accomplish), especially while it is training to handle for blinds, because it can effect your dog's lining or be pretty confusing. You might want to have a conversation with Dane about that and get his input, but I don't see much practical use for it in an upland lab. Unlike more methodical, programmatic and less instinctual non-slip retriever training, probably 90% of upland training books or DVDS will give you a good outline of what you need to do, one is about as good as another, and you can usually check a few out from the library and learn about all you need to.
After your dog gets what he's chasing, and you will know when he does, try to work it into as many types of actual pheasant and quail cover as you can (cattails, tallgrass, rowcrops, hedges, etc.) though most dogs will figure out in a season or 2 that that's where birds hide, and that they need to go in to get them up.
You can add refinements like sit to flush and steady to shot or not (there's a thread about this going on right now for some perspective), as you see fit. Those refinements will just about require some work at a game farm. I'd be a little hesitant to teach it to quarter (which is also pretty easy to accomplish), especially while it is training to handle for blinds, because it can effect your dog's lining or be pretty confusing. You might want to have a conversation with Dane about that and get his input, but I don't see much practical use for it in an upland lab. Unlike more methodical, programmatic and less instinctual non-slip retriever training, probably 90% of upland training books or DVDS will give you a good outline of what you need to do, one is about as good as another, and you can usually check a few out from the library and learn about all you need to.
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David0311
Very good post and information--especially as I recommended before please get to a game farm--or plant some birds--have someone else do the shooting--
Now the reason for my post this time--
By keeping your dog under control and with in range---
THEY WILL--start quartering naturally to look for birds with a little experience--
DID I ------mention as others get to a game farm or some planted birds--good luck and have fun with you pup--
:cheers::cheers:
Very good post and information--especially as I recommended before please get to a game farm--or plant some birds--have someone else do the shooting--
Now the reason for my post this time--
By keeping your dog under control and with in range---
THEY WILL--start quartering naturally to look for birds with a little experience--
DID I ------mention as others get to a game farm or some planted birds--good luck and have fun with you pup--
:cheers::cheers:
IRISHWHISTLER
Member
Steve,
Good to see ye on this forum. How's ye new pup getting on? Stay in touch Mate, always love speaking with other Double TT retriever owners.:thumbsup:
Cheers,:cheers:
Mikey
IRISHWHISTLER
Member
Steve,
Good on ye and ye spunky pup. Haynes picked me lad TRAD, the first time in over three decades I ever let anyone else select a pup for me. Haynes did me right in his selection of TRAD as the lad is truly incredible.
Stay in touch Steve, ye have me email and cell number and I am always up for talking retrievers, especially DOUBLE TT LABS.
CHEERS,
Mikey
goldenboy
Well-known member
The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that your dog will need to hunt which is different than retrieving. Duck and goose dogs retrieve game and hunt for game after a shot. Really good upland dogs hunt for scent. The only way I know how to train that is to get them on birds. David is right planting birds and having others shoot while you work with and watch your dog is a big part of training for upland hunting. The difference will be seen when you start to shoot more birds than your buddies because your dog is always hunting for scent.