Springer vs Lab training?

driftbuster

New member
Is the training for pheasant the same for both breeds? I am new to bird dogs and have a Springer but a friend that trains and breeds labs has offered to help me. I figure it would work but want to get the right training for him. Thanks
 
I would tell you each dog is unique! Not all labs respond the same way, and not all springers respond to training the same. They are both retrievers so you are starting with the same platform. the best trainers I know let the dog tell them how they respond to training versus putting every dog through the same regiment at the same pace. Go for it anybody who wants to help you train is a plus.
 
Driftbuster do yourself a favor and do be sure to train with an ESS trainer. There are a lot of unknowns here, how old is your dog ? Profile would help, the mentality of Labs is much different. Look into the Pittsburg FT club.
 
Driftbuster do yourself a favor and do be sure to train with an ESS trainer. There are a lot of unknowns here, how old is your dog ? Profile would help, the mentality of Labs is much different. Look into the Pittsburg FT club.

Peter my Springer is 10 months old and came from Bird Dog Hill in Oh. I have been in contact with Justin from Pittsburgh FT club but never heard back from him on any training days.
The local Retriever club is saying hey come train with us but i would rather go with the Springer club but they don't seem interested. The Springer club said i probably wouldn't get much out of it since they are doing advanced drills.
 
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Peter my Springer is 10 months old and came from Bird Dog Hill in Oh. I have been in contact with Justin from Pittsburgh FT club but never heard back from him on any training days.
The local Retriever club is saying hey come train with us but i would rather go with the Springer club but they don't seem interested. The Springer club said i probably wouldn't get much out of it since they are doing advanced drills.

Driftbuster,

Don't give up on Justin !
Continue to reach out, another good guy in the club is Jack Hesler.
Other options Todd Agnew Craney Hill Kennels Ga. Awesome program step by step no electric .
Book HUP do get good fundamentals.
Pm If interested
 
I just got the HUP book. It was back in January when i talked to Justin and i think he was busy with a new born at the time. I sent a message to the club this evening and got a message back that someone will be in touch.
 
I remember starting training with my little spaniel and the temptation to train with the retriever folks was very tempting as there just is so much more opportunity out there to train a spaniel as a non-slip retriever. The big thing you will loose when training a spaniel as a retriever is that they really do not expect there dogs to use there nose and hunt the way us spaniel people expect our dogs to do. I think that is one of the biggest differences in how different retriever groups train from the spaniel groups.
 
I remember starting training with my little spaniel and the temptation to train with the retriever folks was very tempting as there just is so much more opportunity out there to train a spaniel as a non-slip retriever. The big thing you will loose when training a spaniel as a retriever is that they really do not expect there dogs to use there nose and hunt the way us spaniel people expect our dogs to do. I think that is one of the biggest differences in how different retriever groups train from the spaniel groups.

Wrong, using the nose is one of the first things I teach my retrievers. Those trainers who train strictly for field trials teach using their eyes but not the case when training hunting retrievers for the uplands. My dogs use their nose and quarter a field just like a well trained spaniel. Not saying that some trainers encourage that their retrievers use their eyes first, but those are not the trainers going pheasant hunting. Training a dog to quarter, trail game, and flush pheasants is the same regardless of breed. The foundation for a quartering upland dog does not change across breeds. Or at least it shouldn't.
 
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Wrong, using the nose is one of the first things I teach my retrievers. Those trainers who train strictly for field trials teach using their eyes but not the case when training hunting retrievers for the uplands. My dogs use their nose and quarter a field just like a well trained spaniel. Not saying that some trainers encourage that their retrievers use their eyes first, but those are not the trainers going pheasant hunting. Training a dog to quarter, trail game, and flush pheasants is the same regardless of breed. The foundation for a quartering upland dog does not change across breeds. Or at least it shouldn't.

When you send on a line do you allow your retrievers to veer offline and downwind of the fall? I was told that retrievers do what is called "challenging the line" and they do not allow a dog to do that which is something that we really want to see in our spaniels. Perhaps only trial people challenge the line?
 
When you send on a line do you allow your retrievers to veer offline and downwind of the fall? I was told that retrievers do what is called "challenging the line" and they do not allow a dog to do that which is something that we really want to see in our spaniels. Perhaps only trial people challenge the line?
Sure I do, I train mine for upland.
 
Most retriever groups train to the standards of Retriever hunt tests. These tests are great for evaluating duck hunting dogs but don’t have anything to do with upland hunting. Dogs trained in this manner tend to rely on their eyes to mark birds and soon learn that their nose will get them in trouble in that game. The typical upland retrieve seldom allows the dog to watch the bird hit the ground so the experienced flushing dog must learn to “take a line” and use his nose intelligently by fading w/ the wind.

Since the AKC opened up their Spaniel Hunt tests to retrievers, I’ve seen quite a few Labs come train w/ our spaniel club. Those that have been trained for retriever tests often rely too much on their handlers for direction. They don’t know how to use the wind effectively and they run in a “stilted” manner. When they make scent, they often slow down or even stop, trying to locate the bird w/ their eyes before flushing. This isn’t a problem w/ planted training birds however, wild roosters will take advantage of this hesitation and skulk away leading to either a lost opportunity or at best, a very long trailing exercise.

On the other hand, Labs that train w/ our spaniel club from the start make outstanding pheasant dogs, every bit as effective as a Springer except for the spaniels superior endurance.
 
Most retriever groups train to the standards of Retriever hunt tests. These tests are great for evaluating duck hunting dogs but don’t have anything to do with upland hunting. Dogs trained in this manner tend to rely on their eyes to mark birds and soon learn that their nose will get them in trouble in that game. The typical upland retrieve seldom allows the dog to watch the bird hit the ground so the experienced flushing dog must learn to “take a line” and use his nose intelligently by fading w/ the wind.

Since the AKC opened up their Spaniel Hunt tests to retrievers, I’ve seen quite a few Labs come train w/ our spaniel club. Those that have been trained for retriever tests often rely too much on their handlers for direction. They don’t know how to use the wind effectively and they run in a “stilted” manner. When they make scent, they often slow down or even stop, trying to locate the bird w/ their eyes before flushing. This isn’t a problem w/ planted training birds however, wild roosters will take advantage of this hesitation and skulk away leading to either a lost opportunity or at best, a very long trailing exercise.

On the other hand, Labs that train w/ our spaniel club from the start make outstanding pheasant dogs, every bit as effective as a Springer except for the spaniels superior endurance.

Good to hear from someone with experience on both sides (retriever and spaniel).

After finishing my cockers FC I had seriously considered training for retriever hunt tests but with quite a few nationals left in my girl I was talked into not going that route with her for the reasons you stated above.
 
Hey A5 Sweet 16

There's a reason the Labrador Retriever is the most popular dog in America and out in the fields for the past 26 years!

I would put my Black Lab up against your Springer any day of the week pheasant hunting, and then we can go duck hunting, goose hunting, run some hunt tests. Oh that's right, your springer may not want to get in the water.



Buster, training would be approached pretty much the same, but the results will be different. In your case (springer), you'll end up with a superior pheasant dog.
 
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