Questions on training a slightly gun shy pup

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Rustycage

New member
I have a 10 month old gsp / lab mix pup. She is highly intelligent responds well to commands like come sit Etc. I bought her for the purposes of pheasant hunting as well as being a companion in the home.

She has always shown strong hunting Drive. I took her out a couple weeks ago on a hunt. Within a couple minutes she had locked up hard on a rooster. It was truly a beautiful sight. I flushed the rooster and shot it. We haven't worked very much on retrieval so I didn't expect her to retrieve it which she did not. She has been around gunfire previously at the quail hunting reserve where she was born, and also at my house. For instance I was out shooting clay pigeons 100yds from the house and she actually came all the way from the house just to sit down and hang out while I was shooting. I thought at this point there was no way she would be gun shy. However later in this first hunt a rooster got up and 3 people in our group shot at it in quick succession. After this happened Tula (my pup) begin to act a little apprehensive and wanted to stay behind me rather than hunting in front of us, and just sat down at one point and didn't want to continue. After a few minutes she got over it and was back to hunting again but after the next shot she again appeared apprehensive.

I really hope I did not make a major mistake by taking her out too early. Since then I've been working a lot with her retrieving a pheasant wing and she's doing great. I've been firing a 22 in a safe direction into the ground while throwing the wing to get her accustomed to the noise and to associate it with retrieving. It doesn't seem to really scare her although sometimes it does break her concentration going for the retrieve. I always praise her immediately afterwards so she Associates the gunfire with a positive feeling. I have also been feeding her outside and shooting a 22 nearby and praising her which she seems to be getting used to. (She never takes off and hides or anything)

I plan to take her to a dog trainer in the spring to work on a variety of things (retrieving, hand signals, etc) My question is this: do I continue to hunt her at all this year? Do you think she will grow used to the idea of gunfire if I continue to work with her while throwing the wing or am I risking creating a permanently gun shy dog by hunting with her this year? As I said before her hunting instinct is excellent she works in front of me just the way you would want her to and when she did lock up on a point it was rock solid.

I'm open to any and all suggestions! Thanks for the time reading my post and thank you in advance for any help! I am admittedly a dog training newbie I really hope I did not cause permanent damage to our hunting experience together.
 
Well, I'm no expert because I've never had to deal with gunshyness. So you guys w/ experience, correct me if I'm off base. My opinion would be to keep doing the things you're doing, including hunting her. That's great that she's getting more & more used to the sound of gunfire when doing the things she likes, whether it be fetching the wing or eating dinner. But to a dog, actual hunting experiences aren't the same. Hunting blows all those other things away in terms of pure fun. So I think to really associate gunfire with fun, you have to hunt her. But I'd do it alone for a while, or in small groups with the understanding that there will only be 1 or 2 shots fired at each bird. My guess is that it won't bother her at all once she makes the connection between a shot & a bird on the ground. She'll love it & want more of it. I would think that once this is established, you could then work your way up gradually to more and more shooting if that's what you're after. I'm not a big-group hunter, but I'd think that those dogs who do it alot had to get used to it. Flushing a bird (or birds) & hearing the equivalent of World War 3 just isn't normal & could easily be startling at the very least.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Well, I'm no expert because I've never had to deal with gunshyness. So you guys w/ experience, correct me if I'm off base. My opinion would be to keep doing the things you're doing, including hunting her. That's great that she's getting more & more used to the sound of gunfire when doing the things she likes, whether it be fetching the wing or eating dinner. But to a dog, actual hunting experiences aren't the same. Hunting blows all those other things away in terms of pure fun. So I think to really associate gunfire with fun, you have to hunt her. But I'd do it alone for a while, or in small groups with the understanding that there will only be 1 or 2 shots fired at each bird. My guess is that it won't bother her at all once she makes the connection between a shot & a bird on the ground. She'll love it & want more of it. I would think that once this is established, you could then work your way up gradually to more and more shooting if that's what you're after. I'm not a big-group hunter, but I'd think that those dogs who do it alot had to get used to it. Flushing a bird (or birds) & hearing the equivalent of World War 3 just isn't normal & could easily be startling at the very least.
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I agree with A5. Hunt her alone until she is totally comfortable in the field. Or you might hunt with one other person and keep the gunfire to a minimum. Sounds like you have done quite well in introducing her to gunfire so far. She obviously got spooked by all the gunfire. I wouldn't think it's necessarily a gun shy issue. Good luck to you and Tula.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Well, I'm no expert because I've never had to deal with gunshyness. So you guys w/ experience, correct me if I'm off base. My opinion would be to keep doing the things you're doing, including hunting her. That's great that she's getting more & more used to the sound of gunfire when doing the things she likes, whether it be fetching the wing or eating dinner. But to a dog, actual hunting experiences aren't the same. Hunting blows all those other things away in terms of pure fun. So I think to really associate gunfire with fun, you have to hunt her. But I'd do it alone for a while, or in small groups with the understanding that there will only be 1 or 2 shots fired at each bird. My guess is that it won't bother her at all once she makes the connection between a shot & a bird on the ground. She'll love it & want more of it. I would think that once this is established, you could then work your way up gradually to more and more shooting if that's what you're after. I'm not a big-group hunter, but I'd think that those dogs who do it alot had to get used to it. Flushing a bird (or birds) & hearing the equivalent of World War 3 just isn't normal & could easily be startling at the very least.
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What he ^ said.

You're doing very well. Nice work.

Is puppy, learning to fall in love with hunting...everything is "gently, gently"...and is supposed to be joyful.
 
I'll be the dissenter and recommend you stop. Pushing through gunshyness will only make the problem worse. I like that you were honest about her experiences with gunfire and I see a couple things that could have caused the problem. Being around clay target shooting before proper introduction is not a good thing, also a .22 is not the same as a blank gun, with the crack/report being much more sharp and not using live birds as incentive. The second she shows any reaction, as in breaking her concentration when going for the retrieve, you need to take a step back and get her to a point where she doesn't do that. Personally, I would start by building bird drive, letting her find and chase pigeons. Then after she is showing that good drive, introduce a blank gun from a distance, 100 yards and gradually work your way up to get over a period of a couple weeks. Then after you are shooting over her with no reaction with the blank gun, start the same process over from a distance with a 20ga and then a 12ga. Then take her out hunting by yourself and gradually add 1 or 2 more people in. Take 2 months to ensure this problem is fixed now or risk having a dog with major issues. Talk to the trainer you are planning on using and get their take on what's going on. Not sure where you're located, but I'd be glad to help if you need it. Good luck.
 
JeremyS said:
I'll be the dissenter and recommend you stop. Pushing through gunshyness will only make the problem worse. I like that you were honest about her experiences with gunfire and I see a couple things that could have caused the problem. Being around clay target shooting before proper introduction is not a good thing, also a .22 is not the same as a blank gun, with the crack/report being much more sharp and not using live birds as incentive. The second she shows any reaction, as in breaking her concentration when going for the retrieve, you need to take a step back and get her to a point where she doesn't do that. Personally, I would start by building bird drive, letting her find and chase pigeons. Then after she is showing that good drive, introduce a blank gun from a distance, 100 yards and gradually work your way up to get over a period of a couple weeks. Then after you are shooting over her with no reaction with the blank gun, start the same process over from a distance with a 20ga and then a 12ga. Then take her out hunting by yourself and gradually add 1 or 2 more people in. Take 2 months to ensure this problem is fixed now or risk having a dog with major issues. Talk to the trainer you are planning on using and get their take on what's going on. Not sure where you're located, but I'd be glad to help if you need it. Good luck.
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This is absolutely great advice and would take JeremyS up on his offer if your close enough to him. :thumbsup:
 
JeremyS said:
I'll be the dissenter and recommend you stop. Pushing through gunshyness will only make the problem worse. I like that you were honest about her experiences with gunfire and I see a couple things that could have caused the problem. Being around clay target shooting before proper introduction is not a good thing, also a .22 is not the same as a blank gun, with the crack/report being much more sharp and not using live birds as incentive. The second she shows any reaction, as in breaking her concentration when going for the retrieve, you need to take a step back and get her to a point where she doesn't do that. Personally, I would start by building bird drive, letting her find and chase pigeons. Then after she is showing that good drive, introduce a blank gun from a distance, 100 yards and gradually work your way up to get over a period of a couple weeks. Then after you are shooting over her with no reaction with the blank gun, start the same process over from a distance with a 20ga and then a 12ga. Then take her out hunting by yourself and gradually add 1 or 2 more people in. Take 2 months to ensure this problem is fixed now or risk having a dog with major issues. Talk to the trainer you are planning on using and get their take on what's going on. Not sure where you're located, but I'd be glad to help if you need it. Good luck.
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This is BY FAR the best advice you have received. I would not change a word!
 
You’re asking Rusty to not hunt his dog for an entire season based on one episode. I think he should definitely hunt the dog a couple more times….soon…..but alone (or maybe with one other person) & with shots limited to 1 or 2. Definitely eliminate larger groups and other dogs. If issues persist, THEN backstep. The dog won’t be “ruined”. But I really would bet that under more intimate circumstances, a shot or 2 isn’t going to scare or distract her. After all, in order for there to be something to fetch in the first place, somebody has to shoot. She will very quickly make the connection between a shot & a bird on the ground.
 
Iam not "asking Rusty" to do anything. I just expressed my opinion and were it me in his position, I would not hunt the dog until properly conditioned to the gun. Ultimately it is his choice as it is his dog. I lean toward incremental progression in my approach to conditioning a dog to the gun. I have seen dogs ruined by others - never by me. Just my humble opinion.

Irishwhistler
 
IRISHWHISTLER said:
Iam not "asking Rusty" to do anything. I just expressed my opinion and were it me in his position, I would not hunt the dog until properly conditioned to the gun. Ultimately it is his choice as it is his dog. I lean toward incremental progression in my approach to conditioning a dog to the gun. I have seen dogs ruined by others - never by me. Just my humble opinion.

Irishwhistler
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So now we're attacking word choice? I figured we all understood the intended meaning of each and every post in this thread so far. Nothing has been complex. But just to be clear, by using the term "asking", I meant "suggesting, recommending, &/or agreeing w/ the recommendation that......" Irishwhistler, I fully understand you're giving your opinion based on your experience. That's what we all do. Your opinion is 100% valid & appreciated. The attitude, no so much.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
So now we're attacking word choice? I figured we all understood the intended meaning of each and every post in this thread so far. Nothing has been complex. But just to be clear, by using the term "asking", I meant "suggesting, recommending, &/or agreeing w/ the recommendation that......" Irishwhistler, I fully understand you're giving your opinion based on your experience. That's what we all do. Your opinion is 100% valid & appreciated. The attitude, no so much.
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A5 me reply was not meant as an attack on ye words and perhaps I fell short on me interpretation of what it was ye we're stating regarding me suggestion for Rusty to backoff on the hunting until his dog has been properly conditioned to the gun. I meant no animosity toward ye at all and I apologize if it came across that way. When it comes to intro to gunfire I am an advocate of the "make haste slowly" school of thought.

Irishwhistler 🍀
 
IRISHWHISTLER said:
A5 me reply was not meant as an attack on ye words and perhaps I fell short on me interpretation of what it was ye we're stating regarding me suggestion for Rusty to backoff on the hunting until his dog has been properly conditioned to the gun. I meant no animosity toward ye at all and I apologize if it came across that way. When it comes to intro to gunfire I am an advocate of the "make haste slowly" school of thought.

Irishwhistler 🍀
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Hey man, I appreciate your words. But now you're using terms I don't understand. All this ye & me (my?) stuff; not to mention "make haste slowly", which makes absolutely no sense. Kidding....only kidding. Love "make haste slowly".
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Hey man, I appreciate your words. But now you're using terms I don't understand. All this ye & me (my?) stuff; not to mention "make haste slowly", which makes absolutely no sense. Kidding....only kidding. Love "make haste slowly".
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Aye Mate,
"That's what she said". Ye get that do ye? :laugh:

Cheers Lad,
Irishwhistler 🍀
 
It is what I am suggesting and based on what he described and the scenarios that led up to it, I see a pretty good recipe for a gun shy dog. I'm not arrogant enough to call myself an expert, but I have trained and do fix gun shy dogs. Maybe I'm completely wrong and I wouldn't guarantee my opinion is right without actually seeing the dog. For what it's worth, I don't hunt any dog until it is properly introduced to birds and gunfire.
 
JeremyS said:
It is what I am suggesting and based on what he described and the scenarios that led up to it, I see a pretty good recipe for a gun shy dog. I'm not arrogant enough to call myself an expert, but I have trained and do fix gun shy dogs. Maybe I'm completely wrong and I wouldn't guarantee my opinion is right without actually seeing the dog. For what it's worth, I don't hunt any dog until it is properly introduced to birds and gunfire.
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X2
Irishwhistler
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
You’re asking Rusty to not hunt his dog for an entire season based on one episode. I think he should definitely hunt the dog a couple more times….soon…..but alone (or maybe with one other person) & with shots limited to 1 or 2. Definitely eliminate larger groups and other dogs. If issues persist, THEN backstep. The dog won’t be “ruined”. But I really would bet that under more intimate circumstances, a shot or 2 isn’t going to scare or distract her. After all, in order for there to be something to fetch in the first place, somebody has to shoot. She will very quickly make the connection between a shot & a bird on the ground.
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Take it easy A5 I think we are entitled to our own opinion.

Gunshy is one hell of a lot easier to avoid than to fix. The dog is telling the OP he's nervous, the OP was smart and attentive enough to see the signs. With out seeing the dog it's impossible to evaluate the level of "nervousness". I will error on the side of caution, dog training isn't a sprint. Proper gun intro can take a week, or two, or longer.
He might be fine to take the dog out under less stressful conditions.......or not. To me the risk is not worth it.

Your opinion might be spot on but what if you are wrong? Gunshyness can be fixed but not always!
I bet gunshyness has never been fixed over the internet.
 
Gatzby said:
Take it easy A5 I think we are entitled to our own opinion.

Gunshy is one hell of a lot easier to avoid than to fix. The dog is telling the OP he's nervous, the OP was smart and attentive enough to see the signs. With out seeing the dog it's impossible to evaluate the level of "nervousness". I will error on the side of caution, dog training isn't a sprint. Proper gun intro can take a week, or two, or longer.
He might be fine to take the dog out under less stressful conditions.......or not. To me the risk is not worth it.

Your opinion might be spot on but what if you are wrong? Gunshyness can be fixed but not always!
I bet gunshyness has never been fixed over the internet.
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Agreed 100%. Opinions welcomed; don't think I hinted otherwise. Smart to pay attention to warning signs. "Proper" gun intro (whatever that means to an owner/trainer) is important & can be time/effort consuming. Gunshyness not fixable online. Many situations can't be diagnosed based on a single incident & without witnessing the incident. It's not always necessary to take the most conservative approach, especially when a person is dealing with his own dog & isn't being paid to train somebody else's.

Question: What's an OP?

Rustycage, please let us know what you decide to do & how it works out. Either way, I'll bet I learn something.
 
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