Never.......

T

TheMorningRise

New member
Seen anything like the beast we have!

I've had dogs, I've had high strung, stubborn Huskies. I have never seen anything like what we have now.

12 week old GSP, still not potty trained (won't poop the kennel but has no issue peeing in it), will not listen, even though she knows "no", "sit" and "come" and still will not keep her yap shut when kenneled.

I've never seen any dog like this!
 
Mine sometimes take a week to crate train and I start them at 8 weeks. How old was the dog when you started crate training? How big is the crate? How much time a day does the dog spend in the crate?

I always crated mine outside in the garage the first several nights so that when they tried to tear the crate apart I did not have to listen to it. During they day they were generally fine. After a couple of nights they adjusted and then were fine in it while in the house. I like to have a bottle of vinegar water ready and at the first noise squirt them in the face and say "no quite". I like a small crate just barely big enough for them to move. My pups spend most of their time in the crate and understand it is a reward to get out and being a good citizen in the crate is the only way they are getting out. I always feed them in it and always give a treat everytime they enter the crate. And I never put them in the crate for punishment. They quickly learn that the crate is their safe haven. A puppy needs a lot of socialization but they need a lot of crate time as well. Crate training is really one of the most important parts of training a dog.
 
I have done darn near all of it.

We got her at 9 weeks. Started with the crate the first night. Tried covering the crate to shush her. Nope, didn't work. The first week and a half, had her at work. Now, spends 8-9 hours during the day in there. So, I understand her peeing in the kennel during that time. However, she gives zero indication when we are home about going out. I just went up stairs and stepped in a puddle. Some days, 2-4 times a day she pees inside.

Crate is just big enough for here to turn around. We put a towel in there which helps absorb it, but even without the towel, she pees in there. Today, I get home, take the wet towel out, take her out. She goes outside. We come in and play. 2 times in the next 30 minutes she pees inside.

When she is tired, as in the evening she goes into the crate, makes noise for 5 minutes (which is much less than at the start) and then falls asleep. Any other time she is in there, she will not shut up, at all!

We have trained numerous dogs, all the same way, this one is special!:mad:


westksbowhunter said:
Mine sometimes take a week to crate train and I start them at 8 weeks. How old was the dog when you started crate training? How big is the crate? How much time a day does the dog spend in the crate?

I always crated mine outside in the garage the first several nights so that when they tried to tear the crate apart I did not have to listen to it. During they day they were generally fine. After a couple of nights they adjusted and then were fine in it while in the house. I like to have a bottle of vinegar water ready and at the first noise squirt them in the face and say "no quite". I like a small crate just barely big enough for them to move. My pups spend most of their time in the crate and understand it is a reward to get out and being a good citizen in the crate is the only way they are getting out. I always feed them in it and always give a treat everytime they enter the crate. And I never put them in the crate for punishment. They quickly learn that the crate is their safe haven. A puppy needs a lot of socialization but they need a lot of crate time as well. Crate training is really one of the most important parts of training a dog.
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TheMorningRise said:
I have done darn near all of it.

We got her at 9 weeks. Started with the crate the first night. Tried covering the crate to shush her. Nope, didn't work. The first week and a half, had her at work. Now, spends 8-9 hours during the day in there. So, I understand her peeing in the kennel during that time. However, she gives zero indication when we are home about going out. I just went up stairs and stepped in a puddle. Some days, 2-4 times a day she pees inside.

Crate is just big enough for here to turn around. We put a towel in there which helps absorb it, but even without the towel, she pees in there. Today, I get home, take the wet towel out, take her out. She goes outside. We come in and play. 2 times in the next 30 minutes she pees inside.

When she is tired, as in the evening she goes into the crate, makes noise for 5 minutes (which is much less than at the start) and then falls asleep. Any other time she is in there, she will not shut up, at all!

We have trained numerous dogs, all the same way, this one is special!:mad:
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Do you leave her in there for 8 hours straight during the day? I am going to say that is way to much time in the crate consecutive. At that age I even get them out of the crate a couple of times during the night to go to the bathroom. They raise hell so that is why I keep them in the garage, so I can get a little sleep. I always get mine out about every hour or 2 during the day. Let them out for a 10 minutes or until they go to the bathroom then right back in. I usually only let them drink when they are going to be out of the crate for a while. I never really added up the time spend in a crate but I am going to say about 20 hours of the day is spent in the crate during crate training. Good luck and don't give in.
 
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8-9 hours is way to long for a pup. Find a neighbor or tweak your work schedule so you can cut time in half! If you want the pup crate trained you have to give him a chance to succeed. Ive found most of the time my pups have accidents its usually my fault as I'm distracted and didn't catch the signals.
Might be time to quit blaming the pup and take a long hard look in the mirror! Good luck and please don't be offended. When I have a problem with a dog I've learned to analyze my behavior first. Scary how often this works!
 
Was the pup kept outside before you got it? Mine was. I kept her in the crate inside for the first 2 days. She did okay with it as far as noise goes but did pee and poop in the crate. I started keeping her outside during the day in the big kennel which connects to two other kennels that have my vizslas in them. She did much better outside during the day. Then at night she started running in her kennel outside and sitting down. Some dogs just prefer it. Plus its spring and the weather is nice now. In the winter I bring mine in when it gets cold. Probably dont need to as their houses are insulated, but I like having them in the house when its cold. Especially if they hunt all day. Point is, my new pup never saw the inside of a house before I got her. My daughter brings her inside when she gets off the bus in the afternoon to socialize her and she doesnt go to the bathroom at all inside anymore. I think its because she spends more time outside and she knows she's going too. If you're wanting it to be an inside dog that's great but it may help to give it more outside time during the day. Instead of having to change around your work schedule or hire a dog sitter!!
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
Was the pup kept outside before you got it? Mine was. I kept her in the crate inside for the first 2 days. She did okay with it as far as noise goes but did pee and poop in the crate. I started keeping her outside during the day in the big kennel which connects to two other kennels that have my vizslas in them. She did much better outside during the day. Then at night she started running in her kennel outside and sitting down. Some dogs just prefer it. Plus its spring and the weather is nice now. In the winter I bring mine in when it gets cold. Probably dont need to as their houses are insulated, but I like having them in the house when its cold. Especially if they hunt all day. Point is, my new pup never saw the inside of a house before I got her. My daughter brings her inside when she gets off the bus in the afternoon to socialize her and she doesnt go to the bathroom at all inside anymore. I think its because she spends more time outside and she knows she's going too. If you're wanting it to be an inside dog that's great but it may help to give it more outside time during the day. Instead of having to change around your work schedule or hire a dog sitter!![/QUOTE

According to the OP he got the pup at 9 weeks, I sure hope it wasnt kept outside
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Whats wrong with it being kept outside. Most breeders I know have an outdoor facility. One where they can go inside but has an outside run connected to it. The guy I got this new pup from had 2 litters when I was there. Both kept outside. What I meant was they werent kept in the living quarters of people.
 
I have a 3 month old pup that is crated during the day. Our family schedules are coordinated so that he is not in the crate for more than 3 - 4 (max) hours.

He plays heavily in the morning with my other dogs in the yard. I come home and train some at lunch. Between his chew toys and sleep (pups sleep alot), we feel he is not too burdened by this crating. He goes into the crate willingly and is not crying when I come home at lunch.

If you are crate confining your dog for 8-9 hours straight ... I say that is way too long. I get that some individuals do not have the flexibility to come home...

In your case you need to build a kennel run ... could even do it in a garage or half in / half out. Eight to nine hours every day in a crate is too long.

Or you give the dog a room. My wife and I when first married and with our first Britt did this. The dog was left in a room... everything was dog proofed and plenty of toys provided. She occasionally stripped our bed apart and did a few other things ... but the room survived and we incurred no loss to our apartment damage deposit when we moved out.

To be honest this response is written as polite as I could without it getting edited or deleted.
 
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I fell asleep in my recliner last night about 10pm. 13 week old setter puppy (that my daughter let out and was hiding her in her room) crawled up in the recliner with me and slept there all night. This morning when I got up at 6am she went to the door, I let her outside and she promptly went to the bathroom and then went to her kennel. She has been a really good puppy so far. And i think its because she gets about an equal number of outside and inside time. My old setter used to come inside but did not want to stay inside. Needed his outside time too. The vizslas on the other hand, would stay inside round the clock if they could. They would only go outside to hunt.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
Whats wrong with it being kept outside. Most breeders I know have an outdoor facility. One where they can go inside but has an outside run connected to it. The guy I got this new pup from had 2 litters when I was there. Both kept outside. What I meant was they werent kept in the living quarters of people.[/QUOT

You said outside. I am unable to interprate what you mean.

Yes many breeders have kennel buildings and dont whelp litters in the kitchen. Doesnt matter to me as long as they are well lit, spotless, and have a lot of human traffic. I strongly believe pups raised in less than spotless enviroments are harder to house break.

Either way the OP needs to evaluate his expectations in a more realistic fashion.

I am with Brittman! I'm trying to stay polite.... But 8-9 hours is crazy!
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Yeah that's way too long to have any dog in a crate. Thats why I dont leave my dogs in the box when hunting out of town. Some do. But I like to let them in the hotel room so they can stretch out. Be less stiff in the morning. But I think as long as the pups have a whelping box where they can cuddle and stay warm at night, there's nothing wrong with keeping them outside. Yes the area they are in needs to be cleaned everyday and things kept in order. And weather is a factor. Not gonna leave a pile of puppies outside when its 20 below. Or any other domestic animal for that fact.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
Was the pup kept outside before you got it? Mine was. I kept her in the crate inside for the first 2 days. She did okay with it as far as noise goes but did pee and poop in the crate. I started keeping her outside during the day in the big kennel which connects to two other kennels that have my vizslas in them. She did much better outside during the day. Then at night she started running in her kennel outside and sitting down. Some dogs just prefer it. Plus its spring and the weather is nice now. In the winter I bring mine in when it gets cold. Probably dont need to as their houses are insulated, but I like having them in the house when its cold. Especially if they hunt all day. Point is, my new pup never saw the inside of a house before I got her. My daughter brings her inside when she gets off the bus in the afternoon to socialize her and she doesnt go to the bathroom at all inside anymore. I think its because she spends more time outside and she knows she's going too. If you're wanting it to be an inside dog that's great but it may help to give it more outside time during the day. Instead of having to change around your work schedule or hire a dog sitter!!
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To each his own but in my opinion they should all be crate trained. Mine never spend a night outdoors until they are about 6 months old. I can tell you that I have not had to hose out pee or poop in an outside kennel in the last 8 years. And I think it has been 20 years since I have had a dog bark. Crate training is the first part of obedience.
 
westksbowhunter said:
To each his own but in my opinion they should all be crate trained. Mine never spend a night outdoors until they are about 6 months old. I can tell you that I have not had to hose out pee or poop in an outside kennel in the last 8 years. And I think it has been 20 years since I have had a dog bark. Crate training is the first part of obedience.
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Agree 100%.
 
I tell you I read everything I can about dog training, I buy videos and keep a library, I talk to pro's, I go watch pro's work dogs, etc. I always try to listen and improve my knowledge on how improve myself as a dog owner. One thing I have learned is that most are not open minded and believe only their methods work because they are happy with their dog and I guess that is okay. But I never met anyone who lets their dogs run at large in the neighborhood every admit it is their fault when the neighbor complains. Dogs should run free I guess. Kinda of like not crate training. It is very important and you will have a better dog if you do so. Just read all you can and try to do it right.
 
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Not sure anyone on here said not to crate train. It is crating for 8-9 hours that can be too long. A fixed location inside or a kennel outside / inside is the answer for a dog during the day.

A kennel is similar to a crate in my book (confined, secure location) ... except where transporting dogs I suppose.

If you work it right and are consistent, the pup views the crate has his place. Our 3 month old Britt is sleeping in his crate (door open) right now with everyone home. He often puts his toys and chew bones in there too.



Agree that no hunting dog should run the neighborhood or property without supervision... it may lessen the dog's hunting skills and obedience and worse the dog could end up killed by vehicle, gun or poison ... the last two by a disgruntled neighbor.
 
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BRITTMAN said:
Not sure anyone on here said not to crate train. It is crating for 8-9 hours that can be too long. A fixed location inside or a kennel outside / inside is the answer for a dog during the day.

A kennel is similar to a crate in my book (confined, secure location) ... except where transporting dogs I suppose.

If you work it right and are consistent, the pup views the crate has his place. Our 3 month old Britt is sleeping in his crate (door open) right now with everyone home. He often puts his toys and chew bones in there too.



Agree that no hunting dog should run the neighborhood or property without supervision... it may lessen the dog's hunting skills and obedience and worse the dog could end up killed by vehicle, gun or poison ... the last two by a disgruntled neighbor.
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Placing a dog in an outside kennel run versus crate training is night and day difference. If you think it is the same then you don't understand the purpose of crate training. Dogs are den animals and once crate trained a dog would prefer 12 hours in a crate compared to a couple of hours in an outside kennel run. When my dogs come in and sleep in a crate at night they run straight to it. Once in you would have to drag them out to get them to leave. They sleep inside in crates during bad weather and extreme cold. They are fine in there for 12 hours plus. Never make a peep.

As far as dogs running at large I am talking about any dog, hunting or mutt. Regardless of how many times that dog shits and digs in my yard, the neighbor will be mad at me every time I complain. He thinks his dog should be free to roam. I am making a comparison to show that some people don't understand the benefits of being a responsible pet owner and keeping the dog confined to their own property. They think their dog is not bothering people running the town. Some people don't understand the benefits of force fetching and how it can help both the dog and owner. They simply don't understand force fetch and don't know how to do or take the time to do so. And some don't understand crate training. It is more than just putting the dog in the crate. It is time consuming and when done properly with an 8 week old puppy, it generally is under control in a week or so. All though the pup understands the crate, the lessons and time in the crate continue for some time. At 6 months move the dog to an outside kennel run. It then understands that it should not bark, jump up and down, pace the kennel, chew, etc. They are simply a responsible citizen with perfect kennel manners. When I pull into some ones yard or go to a dog trainer or breeder kennel and the dogs are all excited and barking, guess what, they weren't crate trained. The kennel and trainer where I buy my puppies from has about 24 dogs on the property in outside/inside climate controlled kennel facilities. You will never hear a dog bark. He crate trains them all.

I can tell on this thread that Gatsby understands crate training and see's the benefits. He gets it.
 
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You seem to approach crating has some type of religion. I guess that is your right.

Crating for most of us is away to keep the dog secure when they are too young to have self control and to provide a place they can revert to when they need peace.

I have three dogs that live inside with us ... the pup is crated at night and during the day when we are not home. Sure he is the crate six - seven hours at night, but during the day I try make it 4 max. The others have their dog beds in our room at night and get free roam (in the house) during the day. Our yard is fenced so they have time to stretch and play even if I cannot be with them - albeit they are never in the backyard when someone is not home.

I can tell you very few professional dog trainers have any clue how to keep three dogs in control in their home. They probably think I am crazy, but we get along just fine and when I set them down in the field they are hunting dogs ... not house dogs.

Your roaming story somewhat off topic here ... sounds like typical rural country to me. Plenty of that in rural MN too where people live on 10-20 acre plots and think they are on their own section. More than just loose running dogs ... so many live like pigs.
 
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TheMorningRise said:
Seen anything like the beast we have!

I've had dogs, I've had high strung, stubborn Huskies. I have never seen anything like what we have now.

12 week old GSP, still not potty trained (won't poop the kennel but has no issue peeing in it), will not listen, even though she knows "no", "sit" and "come" and still will not keep her yap shut when kenneled.

I've never seen any dog like this!
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I advise you sell her and maybe stay with huskies. If the GSP feme has a good pedigree your loses should be minimal. Breeder may even help.
 
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