Montana's Block Management Program

S

Stonebroke

New member
I'm sure everyone has different opinions on the block mgt. program. I remember what hunting was like before block mgt. as well as how it has evolved over the years since it started. I have mixed feelings on it. It's one of those "two edged sword" deals.
The concept behind block mgt. is great... In theory, it has opened up private land to hunting, or has it? I can only speak on my experiences, but in the area I hunt I could have been granted permission to hunt on every property now in block mgt. had I asked. Those farms and ranches that didn't allow hunting still do not.
For non-resident hunters and hunters from other parts of Montana, block mgt is probably pretty nice in some respects. They can travel around Montana and know they'll have places to hunt. The flip side is that block mgt. around here gets absolutely hammered. Hunting pressure is unreal, especially the first few weeks of the season. It does taper off considerably later in the year, but by then the few birds that are left are super educated, and come December who really wants to hunt when it's below zero with a 30 mph wind? There are obviously exceptions to this and I'm sure someone is going to respond with an experience they had that contradicts my experiences, but for the most part, the quality of hunting on block mgt. has suffered compared to before.

Landowners obviously benefit from block mgt. Not only do they get paid for allowing hunting, but for those who use the sign in boxes, they do not have to deal with people knocking on their door, phone calls, etc.

For those who hunt birds other than pheasants, block mgt. is great. We see very few bird hunters before pheasant season opens, so hunting huns and sharptails on block mgt. is usually excellent. Ditto for bowhunting. Most bowhunters around here concentrate on elk, so for those who hunt deer or antelope, block mgt. can provide some excellent hunting. Once rifle season opens, forget it.

So, as I stated, I have mixed feelings on the program. I personally preferred things the way they were before block mgt., but I'm not a non-resident or someone from other parts of Montana looking for a place to hunt.
 
I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I will be up front, I do not care for most government entitlement programs, they take from one person, and then the government decides who to benefit. Soon to come are the post on how non residents pay for the FWP budget and how much NR benefit Montana. I am sure there are businesses that do benefit greatly, but Americans are a pretty resourceful lot, they will find some ingenious ways to adapt if it were not available. A NR will rarely admit the burden that they also incur on states, it is not just a one way street. NR hunting is a luxury, a person does not have the right I believe to expect to hunt another state, they must PAY for that right. True, BM money's come from NR licenses, but a portion does come out of my resident tag, why should myself and other resident hunters have to pay for something we do not use? I admit, I have hunted BM land, but very rarely, it would be no problem to quit. Our entitlement society has come to expect the government to provide all, not realizing others have to pay for what they have come to expect. I do not believe the any state should be in the business of renting land, in direct competition to folks like me that lease land. I no this country was formed on folks harvesting game from our land, but that is not the case now, NONE of us hunt pheasant because it is the cheapest way to survive, we love it, that is why. Bird hunting is like any hobby I believe, if you can not afford it, go to the grocery store, buy a chicken, but do not expect to take money our of my families pocket so that you can have a great time. I know this will get rants, but, it is my opinion , period. What is wrong with slipping a farmer or rancher $100, hell, even more if your so inclined. Capitalism built this country, it is the best system I know of.
 
The BMA's that Ive hunted have been ok. Some you drive up to and think... um ok a cat cant hide on these 2000 acres. Ive had better luck on BMA s than on Open Fields for Game Birds. The areas Ive been in those appear to get the most hammered. For me its one with one dog so it doesnt take much....

What stood out in the original observation is that theres always somewhere to hunt and coming from 900 miles away that offers a LOT of peqce of mind. When a guy pulls up to a 1000 acre wheat field with no homes around.. you can waste a lot of time finding a name n number to call a landowner. I know in theory its all available somewhere but landowners arent sitting at their kitchen table waiting for you to call.

Theres something about your state that just calls to me.. i drive thru a lot of good hunting to go to MT. I hope you feel it too being a resident.
 
UplandHntr said:
The BMA's that Ive hunted have been ok. Some you drive up to and think... um ok a cat cant hide on these 2000 acres. Ive had better luck on BMA s than on Open Fields for Game Birds. The areas Ive been in those appear to get the most hammered. For me its one with one dog so it doesnt take much....

What stood out in the original observation is that theres always somewhere to hunt and coming from 900 miles away that offers a LOT of peqce of mind. When a guy pulls up to a 1000 acre wheat field with no homes around.. you can waste a lot of time finding a name n number to call a landowner. I know in theory its all available somewhere but landowners arent sitting at their kitchen table waiting for you to call.

Theres something about your state that just calls to me.. i drive thru a lot of good hunting to go to MT. I hope you feel it too being a resident.
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I took a trip to Montana when I got out of the Coast Guard in 1974 to do some hunting and fishing. I was out here for about a month. When I left I knew I had to live here, so in 1977 I loaded up my old 1953 Willy's Pickup and headed west.... took me 7 days to drive here from Vermont. I've seen a lot of changes in the 40 years I've lived here... not all good, of course, but it is what it is. It's still a great place to live... Hunting and Fishing is just one factor.. It's the lifestyle and western culture that grows on a guy...and the wide open spaces....... There's no substitute for elbow room. :cheers:
 
Montana Husker
How much do you pay extra on your license for the BM program. While you have some valid points you forgot a couple others. We as NR hunters pay way more money for our license and we spend a lot money in the state that puts money in pockets of some of your residents.
Another thing some of that BM land would not be in good cover without the money from BM. Also I'm sure there are large number of people that live in the state that use the BM program.
Your post comes across as another resident that doesn't like non-resident hunters.
 
Shcultz, I did not forget. I do not know what portion from my license goes to BM, I shouldn't have to pay a penny if I do not want to use it. Of course NR pay way more license fee....like I said on this forum before, I actually live where I hunt, and pay a relative large some of taxes to the state, i.e. property, income, vehicle, fuel, taxes, it is a heck of a lot more then any NR tag you or anyone else buy's here in Montana. The one point I was making in my prior post, you failed to answer......why does the government have the right to take from one person in order to benefit another? It seems to be the rage of the progress movement, divide OUR country, then promise the divided groups something that would solely benefit that group.
 
sschultz said:
Montana Husker
How much do you pay extra on your license for the BM program. While you have some valid points you forgot a couple others. We as NR hunters pay way more money for our license and we spend a lot money in the state that puts money in pockets of some of your residents.
Another thing some of that BM land would not be in good cover without the money from BM. Also I'm sure there are large number of people that live in the state that use the BM program.
Your post comes across as another resident that doesn't like non-resident hunters.
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You misunderstood the points I was trying to make. I have no problem with non-residents coming here to hunt. I was a non-resident at one time who came to Montana to hunt. My point is basically that block mgt. has not opened up any land around here that wasn't open before if people asked. Those landowners who have never allowed hunting have not enrolled in the block mgt. program. Again, I can only speak for where I hunt local

You are absolutely correct....there are a lot of hunters in Montana who hunt block mgt. The majority come over from Western Montana. Around here there are probably 10 people from Western Montana who make the trip here for every non-resident.....probably more as I'm just guessing. And you're also 100% correct regarding who pays for the block mgt. program, but who has benefited from it the most? Certainly not local hunters... The money generated from non-residents for the program is mostly benefiting non-residents and residents who travel around Montana to hunt.

The major point I was trying to make that block mgt. has created tremendous hunting pressure and the end result is that the quality of hunting has suffered greatly. Yes, hunters know that they will have a place to hunt with block mgt., but the block mgt ground gets hammered to death. If I just want to walk my dogs so they can get a whiff of a bird every now and then I can walk them on BLM or State ground. When I go hunting I want to get into some birds and have some fun.... Block mgt. has diminished that opportunity.
 
Husker we all pay taxes that the government gives to other people. The amount of money it costs you for BM is a very small part your license.
 
I come every year from over 2000 miles away. Montana is one of the last places a person can go and find a place to hunt on public land where there are wild birds. The last two years I went for pheasant season. Pheasant season had many more hunters than the early Sharptail season. I don't think I will return for pheasants. I will return for Sharptails and Huns in Sept.. I have seen IMO an increase in birds over the years including pheasants. I don't really think the population has diminished. I can only be grateful for the chance to hunt this great place. I spend lots of money every year in local business and everyone seems happy to have me there. I think the real problem is every tv show and writer is focused on Montana hunting and they make it look like its shooting fish in a barrel. This has led to an increase in hunters. I have observed an increase in road hunters which I hate and many pro trainers running many dogs over the same spots. I would be in favor of an increase in the NR license fee to cut down on the non serious hunters. I love BM and think its great but to much publicity is having an effect. We are all Americans and people should be allowed to hunt anyplace they want as long as they respect those places and play fair.
 
Montana is one of the top five subsidized states and sucks up more of the US citizens money than it contributes

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...st-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2015-7


In Montana, residents see $1.24 in return for every dollar they pay in federal income tax, the 18th highest rate in the country. 37.49% of Montana's state revenue is comprised of federal funds, which ranks tenth highest in the country.

In addition, Montana has 13.51 federal employees per 1000 residents, good for 16th highest, and 8.74 non-defense federal employees per 1000 residents, which is fourth highest in the country.
 
bobman said:
Montana is one of the top five subsidized states and sucks up more of the US citizens money than it contributes

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...st-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2015-7


In Montana, residents see $1.24 in return for every dollar they pay in federal income tax, the 18th highest rate in the country. 37.49% of Montana's state revenue is comprised of federal funds, which ranks tenth highest in the country.

In addition, Montana has 13.51 federal employees per 1000 residents, good for 16th highest, and 8.74 non-defense federal employees per 1000 residents, which is fourth highest in the country.
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You are aware of the numerous Indian tribal reservations in Montana, correct? I believe that would make the stats you posted frivolous. Another thing to remember is the amount of federal lands here in Montana, and the number of federal employees the last administration bloated their rosters with. To make it sound like we here in Montana are profiting from the federal payout is ridiculous.
 
the numbers are what they are..... more fed money in than out

I wasn't the one that started the rant about Montanans paying taxes


One more thing federal lands are just that owned by all of us, yet we out of staters pay way more for hunting licenses to hunt the national forests and BLM

life isn't fair is it LOL
 
bobman said:
the numbers are what they are..... more fed money in than out

I wasn't the one that started the rant about Montanans paying taxes


One more thing federal lands are just that owned by all of us, yet we out of staters pay way more for hunting licenses to hunt the national forests and BLM

life isn't fair is it LOL
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But you forget one important thing, wildlife, it is STATE PROPERTY, sorry we in Montana do not pay the bill for the Indian agreements that the federal government agreed to. I love it when someone says they pay federal taxes and they have a right to hunt here in Montana, heck, my neighbor works and lives here raising his 3 sons along with his wife, just found out he did not receive a archery elk tag in the breaks, yet NR will be getting their tags in the mail......that is wrong in my opinion, hopefully enough Montanan's will get sick of this happening and get the state to do something about it.
 
opinions not withstanding the person with the legally purchased license has the same rights as any other legal license holder no matter where they reside

if it's a lottery then it's right and fair
 
bobman said:
opinions not withstanding the person with the legally purchased license has the same rights as any other legal license holder no matter where they reside

if it's a lottery then it's right and fair
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In your mind...not mine. Or a lot of other RESIDENT MONTANA'S. If you can not comprehend the fact one is a resident and should have priority, oh well, not going to convince you. How many federal acres in Georgia? How many Indian reservations? To simply state Montana receives more tax dollars then it pays out, is accurate, but do some research and see why we receive those dollars.....it is not just to take care of federal lands. Kind of funny how folks always point to federal funds Montana takes in, forgetting the reasons it is so.
 
actually "in my mind" on federal land residency shouldn't matter let the lottery pick them

You are welcome to come down to Georgia to hunt and I will help you, just deer and turkeys and tons of national forest. If you let me know far enough in advance i'll do some scouting so you have a good hunt.
 
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Husker
Why don't you tell us how many permits were available for that area and how many went to residents and how many went to non residents.
 
Good block management places get hammered. I try to avoid them.You can get birds there, but it's a lot of work.Also these wildlife areas get hammered by out of state hunters.Avoid them.Avoid places where these rich guys with suburbans, and 8 dogs hunt.i have found good places, but I know how, and where to look.Drive a beater, drink old mill, travel alone.
 
Goosemaster said:
Good block management places get hammered...Avoid places where these rich guys with suburbans, and 8 dogs hunt.i have found good places, but I know how, and where to look.Drive a beater, drink old mill, travel alone.
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I've hunted Montana for awhile now until this year when my dog went blind. Truer words were never spoken. A single guy hunting by himself or with one dog and sleeping with his dog in a camper shell is treated with, I guess you could call it, respect by the land owners. They like someone who actually hunts without a lot of creature comforts and will give that guy access they won't to guys in three suburbans with 18 dogs and new hunting clothes. Hunting is supposed to be about the chase and the adventure and not the score in my opinion and apparently in a lot of Montana landowners minds.
 
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