I've got a serious problem here. .....

COWAN

Member
I have a wirehair female, 7 months old. During the Pheasant hunt she performed very well. Since the hunt has been over I've been working with her trying to keep her on birds but on now 4 occasions when it comes time to leave, she won't come to me. She will stay back about 30' and eventually just runs off. I was able to catch her twice but the last two times someone else had to call her and catch her. I guess it's time to use the check cord or maybe even use my e-collar.
I just don't get it. This dog gets treated better than any dog I have ever had.
Anyone out there have similar experiences? Any help is appreciated.
 
I have a Brittany that I have spoiled by letting her ride in cab of my truck . When come time to kennel all other dogs come to tailgate she . She will move off if she thinks she is going in the dog box . Open the door to the truck she is in immediately .

Most dogs will come right to you if you kneel down and call them . Have you tried this ?
 

COWAN

Member
Ya I've tried that, I even opened the back door of my crew cab. She did try to get in but the second she saw me walk around from the back of the truck she bolted. She doesn't like riding in a dog box and I practically have to force her in it. Maybe that's the issue. I'm confused here. I've had over a dozen different dogs and have never had this issue before.
 

Prairie Drifter

Active member
Yer gonna have to change it up. She's figured out what time to go looks like and would rather stay. You need to decide to go when you already have hold of her for awhile and not use the same format you've been using. My first setter would see the truck and hook to the side and start pointing and moving away. There was never a bird, he was just manipulating me to stay away from the truck. Gotta show who's smarter here and become unpredictable.
 
I had the same problem with my lab, when she was about the same age. She still wont ride in the box in the back of my truck without a wrestling match. She gets to ride in the back seat which has worked out. I ended up using my e-collar to correct the issue. I also started feeding her a little after the hunt and that seemed to help.
 

COWAN

Member
I have a Brittany that I have spoiled by letting her ride in cab of my truck . When come time to kennel all other dogs come to tailgate she . She will move off if she thinks she is going in the dog box . Open the door to the truck she is in immediately .

Most dogs will come right to you if you kneel down and call them . Have you tried this ?
Funny thing is, at home if I call her and she won't obey, all I have to do is drop the tailgate and tap my fingers on it and she comes running full speed.
 

mnaj_springer

New member
It means your obedience needs work. You're right to think about using the check cord. Use it to reinforce "here" (or whatever you say) until she knows there is other option but obedience. Also, you only say it once.

Before using the e-collar be sure she understands how eliminate pressure (through obedience) on the check cord... Then thoroughly collar condition her.

My dogs sometimes don't like the command given (for example, when I say "kennel" before leaving for work) but they obey because I won't give a command unless I know I will enforce it even if it means I have to walk in socks through the yard in the dead of winter.

Good luck and be patient. She's still a baby... or as one of my training partners would say, "she's still sh@&$ing yellow."
 

COWAN

Member
Yes I realize she is still young, I'm not giving up on her. I did give her a spanking second to last time she did this and I thought it cured her. These last two times however I have not done much other than scold her and a small spat on the rump. I had a guy tell me to thrash the hell out of her when she does this sort of thing but I can't see the positive side of doing this.
Like I said, last night I worked her in heavy cover for about 2 hours and had no issues what so ever. Tonight I ran her for about an hour or so and she went right back to square one.
 
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JeremyS

New member
She's really young and just needs her recall training completed properly. Any spanking, swatting or thrashing is likely going to do more harm than good. Remember that you want her to come when called. She's not going to do that if she got swatted the last time she came. Even if it takes her a while to get to you, she should get praise when she comes. You are correct that it is time for the check cord and then to reinforce with the collar when she is reliably understanding the cord.
 

COWAN

Member
She's really young and just needs her recall training completed properly. Any spanking, swatting or thrashing is likely going to do more harm than good. Remember that you want her to come when called. She's not going to do that if she got swatted the last time she came. Even if it takes her a while to get to you, she should get praise when she comes. You are correct that it is time for the check cord and then to reinforce with the collar when she is reliably understanding the cord.
Thanks for your reply. Something clicks in this dogs head. One day flawless, the next day... issues.
I've got about a 30' cord, I'll start there. One other issue that may be related, she usually won't go to her home kennel either. I have been leashing her when it's time for the kennel. But then again once in a while she goes right in. I've never had issues like this before with any previous dog.
 

Shawk

Member
She's really young and just needs her recall training completed properly. Any spanking, swatting or thrashing is likely going to do more harm than good. Remember that you want her to come when called. She's not going to do that if she got swatted the last time she came. Even if it takes her a while to get to you, she should get praise when she comes. You are correct that it is time for the check cord and then to reinforce with the collar when she is reliably understanding the cord.
+1... it's tough and puppies test our patience for sure. But I would be careful being physical with your pup even in the smallest way. ;) This is time you want to do everything you can so they want to be around you and always want to come when you call. Keep it fun (even when it's not so fun for you... lol). The boxing thing can be made fun as well. This puppy thing is more of a job than we all want some days! :eek: But is ultra rewarding later on... best wishes!
 

mnaj_springer

New member
Cowan, this dog is not your last dog nor is she your next one. All dogs are different and respond to pressure differently. But every time she comes when called, even if you have to go get her, deserves praise. Spanking, smacking, and thrashing is punishment. The only thing worth of those punishments are capital offenses (in my book that's aggressiveness towards people). You need to praise the behaviors you want and CORRECT the behaviors you don't want. The best way to do a correction is with your mouth shut and your hands off the dog (using a check cord, lead, or ecollar).

Which training program are you using? If you're not, get one immediately before doing anything else.
 

bobman

New member
Cowan, this dog is not your last dog nor is she your next one. All dogs are different and respond to pressure differently. But every time she comes when called, even if you have to go get her, deserves praise. Spanking, smacking, and thrashing is punishment. The only thing worth of those punishments are capital offenses (in my book that's aggressiveness towards people). You need to praise the behaviors you want and CORRECT the behaviors you don't want. The best way to do a correction is with your mouth shut and your hands off the dog (using a check cord, lead, or ecollar).

Which training program are you using? If you're not, get one immediately before doing anything else.
+1 its never productive to hit a dog and always undermines your efforts.

All dogs are different about when they need to start wearing an ecollar this dog is ready (with proper ecollar introduction). She has to learn you can enforce your commands from a distance.

I have one similar right now, shes just one year old and finally starting to come without the nick. She's just full of herself and is going to be a great bird dog.

When they finally come in love them up, go overboard with it (even if you really want to choke them).
 

OKRev

New member
My 7mo. old GSP does almost the same thing. When she knows its time to load up she'll try to stay out of arms' reach because she's just not ready to go. I look at it as she loves to hunt and wants to stay and do that and that's not a bad trait to have in a bird dog. However it is a training issue. Two things I've done that seem to help: 1. I put her check cord on her before we get in sight of the truck, because that's when she loses her mind. 2. She is whoa broke (we had a little "come to Jesus" meeting with whoa training in the back yard so she doesn't test me on this one) so if I need to, I'll whoa her and then call her to me. It seems like once she is in that obedience mode she obeys all the commands that she knows. And when she does obey, I praise her like crazy and give her treats. She still struggles with this every time we go out, but I see improvement every time we go.

Also, if she's not wanting to listen because she's too hyped up, like last week when she made an awesome running point on a covey where she changed direction and locked up in mid air then after 5 seconds took a step and busted them, I push pause and have a training session. I knelt down in the middle of the field telling her to come until she obeyed, I never chase a dog. Took about 5 minutes but she realized that I wasn't going to follow her around. I put the check cord on her, and we covered all her commands right there, she acted like an angel the rest of the day (except for the armadillo chasing incident, which is a whole other thread:rolleyes:) Be patient, be consistent, and be repetitious. She's still a puppy and she's learning a new language and a new game. Good luck!
 

Gatzby

Member
Cowan, this dog is not your last dog nor is she your next one. All dogs are different and respond to pressure differently. But every time she comes when called, even if you have to go get her, deserves praise. Spanking, smacking, and thrashing is punishment. The only thing worth of those punishments are capital offenses (in my book that's aggressiveness towards people). You need to praise the behaviors you want and CORRECT the behaviors you don't want. The best way to do a correction is with your mouth shut and your hands off the dog (using a check cord, lead, or ecollar).

Which training program are you using? If you're not, get one immediately before doing anything else.
This is good

I will add be consistent. Dogs like knowing what's expected, swatting one time, tapping tailgate, opening truck door, and driving away give the dog no idea of what you want. Use a check cord say here, come, or whatever once and then help the pup understand with quick tugs on lead.
I also would recommend starting this in a controlled environment like a fenced yard and slowly adding in distraction filled environments. My guess is obediance may lack in other areas as well. Use meal time to red force sit/stay, work on kennel command in living room and do not let dog bust out of kennel when you open the door make her wait till you say "ok" or something.
Again be firm, and consistent the dog will love it
 

Crossing shot

New member
During a John Hann seminar, a young fella said he was told to stick the dog's snout into a water bowl if if disobeyed.

It's good to have a forum like this.
 

Coveyrise64

New member
.....I've got about a 30' cord, I'll start there.
I prefer a shorter leash to start with for recall. Timing of the command is key. I want the response to the command and the results to be immediate by the dog coming to my side. Extend the distance as the compliance improves. It's easier to introduce the e-collar with the shorter leash as well. In both instances I work with short sessions and focus on productive repetitions instead of distance.

I think the key to recall or any obedience training is having expectations and accepting nothing less. In the field I have seen too many use "here" for the recall and "here" to turn their dog to the front. One verbal command can't or shouldn't have two meanings. If you want the dog to come all the way in, stop moving, stand still and make the dog come to your side. As long as you're moving your dog responds accordingly. "Here" means come to me, to turn your dog use its name or some other cue.

If all else fails.....an alternative is the debolting method described over on the gundog.forum. While not a method I endorse I guess it works for a few. :(

cr
.
 

COWAN

Member
Thanks for all of the replies. I will start with my short leash and go from there. I have tried a few things mentioned by a few of you. Time to go to work.
 
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