How BIG is to BIG

Recon

Recon

New member
So I have a youthful GSP (8 mo)that likes to venture pretty far out when we are in the fields training he runs pretty big. Is there a such thing as a dog that hunts to far out or is it more of a hunters preference. I guess my real concern is I don't want to reel him in and hurt his confidence and style but on the other hand I really don't know if him out a mile plus is a real good thing either.
 
Recon, I think it is really "hunter preference". I like my Brittany to hunt about a 100 yards or so out from me. My hunting buddy thinks its wonderful his hunts at 300 plus yards. He is constantly yelling for or at his dog. He has very little control that far out. While your dog is young, I would train or have him trained to work the range you like.........Bob
 
recon,
if your dog is more than 400 lbs, its to big. lol:eek: i dont want my dogs working out of gun range. i mean 50 yards max. if they work at 100 yard and the birds get up, i have no shot. imo they need to stay close, 50 yards max. before i get hate mail, on this subject, bread of dog, pointer, flusher, may change this subject, a little, but imo not much:thumbsup:
 
Have to agree jmac:10sign:. I think the extra distance isn't worth the busted birds. They won't hold forever and I want a reasonable chance to shoot em:) I had an old female wirehair that I'd let run how she wanted but she was sooooo careful on birds that it was worth it.
 
i agree. when i had remington, he never wander more than 20 yards from me. even if hes locked on a scent but no bird yet, he looks back to see where i am. if im too far, believe me, he waited for me. i didnt have to say anything to make him wait. but i did always say, okay lets go, every time he got to a point and waited for me.
 
birdman652001 said:
i agree. when i had remington, he never wander more than 20 yards from me. even if hes locked on a scent but no bird yet, he looks back to see where i am. if im too far, believe me, he waited for me. i didnt have to say anything to make him wait. but i did always say, okay lets go, every time he got to a point and waited for me.
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thanks birdman and plainsman . when i said 50 yard max, i mean no more than 50. birdman is right 20 yards is is what i want. however i hunt in areas that don't have great numbers of pheasants and got to let the dogs have there fun too, but no more than 50 yards. cant wait to here others on this site. :thumbsup:
 
Recon said:
So I have a youthful GSP (8 mo)that likes to venture pretty far out when we are in the fields training he runs pretty big. Is there a such thing as a dog that hunts to far out or is it more of a hunters preference. I guess my real concern is I don't want to reel him in and hurt his confidence and style but on the other hand I really don't know if him out a mile plus is a real good thing either.
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if he isnt covering ground he isnt finding birds if my dog stayed 20 to 50 yards by me hell ive already flushed them birds.If your huinting wide open country i want him out there i dnt really care how far but if thicker cover i want him closer if i want my dog closer all i have to do is nick him with a collar and he is turning or i can whistle hes turning as well some people i hunt with dnt like noise so that is why i throw both options in there i personally dnt like yelling or using a whistle so i just knick him and he is turning. i would rather have a dog with big desire like yours ! You can always bring them in.
the hard thing is getting them out to where you want them if you want them 100 to 200 yrds in open country.thick 100 and quartering to each is own.
 
how many times at the end of the day or middle of day your tired and theres a long fence row you want to hunt just let the dog run it saves on leather let the dog run it all i do is let him run the whole row he is either going to lock up or no birds next spot or head to the strip joint
 
Not a pointer guy but I do believe Only a Pointer is right about it being cover dependent. How far do you pointer guys let them run in cattails.
 
When you hunters say birds flush wild when the dog works at about 100 yards. I don't find it that way. I work the dog into wind. When he points he is usually far enough from the bird they either hold or run. They rarely flush.........Bob
 
musings on range

I have been a pointing dog guy all my life, though I have a real appreciation for the flushing dog also. I have to say that I find the big running dogs to be objective runners, and somewhat cover averse, preferring to run edges, and as Pointer says, run the whole field edge. Used to work great with quail, and in mixed country, pheasant and quail, you have the odd pheasant point here and there. But you get a lot of unproductive points, because the birds run, or a lot of hen points, because they tend to sit. In either case you better be able to run like Usian Bolt, if your going to get there before anything but a green first two weeks of the season bird is going to wait around while you get to a find "way out on a limb", as the field trial people call it. Very seldom in my experience, and I have had dogs which placed in national open horseback continual course trials, will a dog that runs like that, hack down and hunt thick heavy cover for very long, much less pattern hunt like a spaniel or lab. I have to say that I fall into the category of believing that close working dogs are more effective a producing birds to the gun. As far as always working into the wind, I wish I could do that, but some places, you just have to play the hand your dealt. Cattails, like your talking about, big running dogs skirt,hit the edge, maybe twice even, might get the continental pointers in there, if their not horseback field trial dogs. But to wade into the marsh and mud, to hunt for a bird which may or may not be there, the next one I see make more than a cursory effort will be the first. There are of course pointing dogs of all breeds that work on a pattern, but that dog won't be taking any 1/2mile hedgerow without you walking the whole thing either. I'm sure that somewhere, there is at least one paragon of virtue, that can do it all, and proves me wrong, but I say it only proves the rule. Lucky the guy who owns that blue hen.
 
I have own brits, GSP and pointers and have found with all of them the more a dog ranges the more birds I have bust on me. My female pointer now was very rangy when she was a pup up to 300 or more yards and I have reeled her back to about 50 yards now. I do let her get out further in more open cover but in tight areas or tall CRP I like to keep her close. I might have to take a couple of extra steps through the day but I think I get more birds that way. Two years ago we shot a limit of birds in an two hours with 40 minutes of travel from one place to another keeping her with in 30 yards that morning.
 
Recon said:
So I have a youthful GSP (8 mo)that likes to venture pretty far out when we are in the fields training he runs pretty big. Is there a such thing as a dog that hunts to far out or is it more of a hunters preference. I guess my real concern is I don't want to reel him in and hurt his confidence and style but on the other hand I really don't know if him out a mile plus is a real good thing either.
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don't take this the wrong way, if the dog is out running a mile away are you really "training"? or is it just excercise, it is nearly impossible to keep a dog under control @ a mile away especially at 8 months old
if your're in a big field "training" with the anticipation of finding a bird (just like a hunting situation) you need to reel the dog in and start making it work for your hunting style not vice versa
@ 8 months, just a pup be patient and consistant with whatever range you decide
 
It's really much the preference of the hunter and also the type of cover you are hunting. I let my Brittanys run pretty big when I'm in a section of CRP. They get out over 100 yards. But the key is control. Can you control your dog at longer distances? Or even shorter distances. As long as you have control I don't know what's too big. I'm not going to kid anyone, my dogs do bust a rooster out of range on occasion. But the way I look at it, I probably would even have seen that rooster if I kept them in at 50 yds. And in the long run, by letting them run bigger I'm convenced that my dogs find more birds because they are coving more ground.

Since I've started running the NSTRA trials I have found out that you have to have a big running dog. I let my 1 1/2 year old Brittany that I'm trialing run out 100+ yds last season but then would call her back in. So in my first trials she would get out 100 yds. then circle back to me. That doesn't work in the trials. You want the dog out front working and locating birds, not checking back with you. But the dog learns when it's trialing and when it's hunting. But again I stress the key is "CONTROL". I dont care how far out she it, 2 blasts on the whistle and she is headed back to me.
 
So Zeb does it matter the type of bird that you are hunting. I know very little about trials. But from what I have seen they use covey birds not pheasants because they hold better when pointed. Correct me if I am wrong. If you are hunting a covey bird that does not have the tendency to run can't you let your dogs run bigger.

Congrats on 1000 :cheers:
 
moellermd said:
So Zeb does it matter the type of bird that you are hunting. I know very little about trials. But from what I have seen they use covey birds not pheasants because they hold better when pointed. Correct me if I am wrong. If you are hunting a covey bird that does not have the tendency to run can't you let your dogs run bigger.

Congrats on 1000 :cheers:
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That's exactly what I was attempting to say. In the NSTRA trials your dog has to run big. And Yes, they use mainly quail (some chukar) in the trials so then do hold very well. Once the dogs goes on point it cannot move. Not one step. So if you are 100-200 yards away it can take a while to get to the bird and the dog must maintain steady until you flush the bird.

This is contrary to how most of us would hunt pheasants. Like I said, I do let my dogs range out 100 yards or so when hunting pheasants in CRP. In heavier cover I keep them in closer. When I'm hunting Sharpies in wide open spaces with light cover I let the dogs go out further yet. But the big question as far as I'm concerned is, "Can you control your dog at whatever range you let him/her run?"

Thus the challenge for the dog is learning when it's trialing, and when it's hunting. And everyone assures me that they learn this with experience.
 
I guess if my dog bumps a bird at 200yds I don't care if I would of seen it or not because the end result is the same. I really believe in order for a dog to be good on pheasants it has to spend a lifetime hunting them. They are so differant from any other bird which I guesss is why I like them.
 
heres the deal ya birds bust once in a while so what you have to be in birds to bust them BUT your going to find and stick tons more.ok this is usually how it works and you have to think about a field before you just go plowing into it you want to work your dog in the wind and work the birds in a corner meanwhile say birds are there my dogs are yes usually pointing and as you walk up nothing well we all know they are running so when it comes to the end of a field or in a corner where you have them trapped BANG your dog is on point and birds are busting out! seen it a bunch!So my point is if your dog wasnt pointing in that field how would you know where to even go? or at the end where you have them trapped how would you know where to walk the field without a dog that is shining your freaking boot at 20 yards no thanks !to the cattail question if birds are in the cattails im not getting in them unless i know there. there point is i let my dog run the edges and when he caTChes scent im in there pretty simple really .
 
plainsman said:
I guess if my dog bumps a bird at 200yds I don't care if I would of seen it or not because the end result is the same. I really believe in order for a dog to be good on pheasants it has to spend a lifetime hunting them. They are so different from any other bird which I guess is why I like them.
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But it's when your dog points and pins down that rooster at 100+ yards that makes it all worthwhile.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that everyone let there dogs run Big. It's going to depend on the dog, conditions, cover and probably most of all the hunting style and preference of the owner. So there is really no correct or wrong answer to the originaly question.
 
oldandnew said:
I have been a pointing dog guy all my life, though I have a real appreciation for the flushing dog also. I have to say that I find the big running dogs to be objective runners, and somewhat cover averse, preferring to run edges, and as Pointer says, run the whole field edge. Used to work great with quail, and in mixed country, pheasant and quail, you have the odd pheasant point here and there. But you get a lot of unproductive points, because the birds run, or a lot of hen points, because they tend to sit. In either case you better be able to run like Usian Bolt, if your going to get there before anything but a green first two weeks of the season bird is going to wait around while you get to a find "way out on a limb", as the field trial people call it. Very seldom in my experience, and I have had dogs which placed in national open horseback continual course trials, will a dog that runs like that, hack down and hunt thick heavy cover for very long, much less pattern hunt like a spaniel or lab. I have to say that I fall into the category of believing that close working dogs are more effective a producing birds to the gun. As far as always working into the wind, I wish I could do that, but some places, you just have to play the hand your dealt. Cattails, like your talking about, big running dogs skirt,hit the edge, maybe twice even, might get the continental pointers in there, if their not horseback field trial dogs. But to wade into the marsh and mud, to hunt for a bird which may or may not be there, the next one I see make more than a cursory effort will be the first. There are of course pointing dogs of all breeds that work on a pattern, but that dog won't be taking any 1/2mile hedgerow without you walking the whole thing either. I'm sure that somewhere, there is at least one paragon of virtue, that can do it all, and proves me wrong, but I say it only proves the rule. Lucky the guy who owns that blue hen.
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i guarantee if i pulled up to a hedge row my dog would run it and i could tell you exactly how he would do it if it was lets just say a 800yrds long he would range 100 and chk back then he would range maybe 250 chk back 450 chk back so on so forth but like you said you have to have a dog that has been hunted lots and exp on birds so know i guarantee im not walking the whole thing if i dnt have to i cant beleive you have never seen a dog run a whole hedge line wow
 
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