Eley Hawk shot shells

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RK Special K

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Eley Hawk has a new 20ga shell:

20ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz 1425fps mv 32 grams

Do any of you experienced reloaders have an opinion on this?

Wow 1425fps !!!!! That's get'n up there with 12ga boys!
 
Go to Eley Hawk.com

I did talk to an agent that handles this - I think he said that the 20 yard velocity is 1100fps - is there some new "super powder" they discovered.

Pushing 1 1/8 of shot at 1425fps from a 2 3/4" shell I thought was "beyond the envelope".
 
Back when I was loading 1-1/8 in 20 ga, 1425 was off the scale for pressure. Best I can remember 1250 was near 10,000 psi, pretty dang hot.
 
Estate Cartridge Co. made, for a short time, the following:

20ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz 4,6 1250fps mv

I happened upon 2 boxes of these in a convenience store while hunting in Nebraska a couple years ago. Wish I had 3 cases of this. I have a Benelli 20ga auto - so pressure is less of a concern. Wonder why this load was discontinued - it seems like the perfect 20ga load for roosties and sharpies.

Question: Given a barrel was as thick and strong enough as needed, how fast could 1 1/8oz of lead shot be propelled from a 2 3/4", 20ga shell?

Any of you reloaders know the answer? 1425? 1650? 1950? .........
 
I've put a lot of 1&1/8 Winchesters thru my American Arms Derby/Zabala sxs over the years without harm, but I do not beleive they produce that kind of pressure. It's a 3" gun produced about 1990.
 
I think any gun made after the advent of steel shot should have thick enough barrel walls to handle the pressure. Mine are 1910-1930 vintage, and they pattern better with fiber wads! As far as max velocity I suspect that your limiting factors would be currently available powders, barrel length and ability to burn the powder effectively in that distance. You'll know you've reached the limit when your primers are deformed or your shell casings have blown the crimp off on it's way out, and you have scorch marks on the shell casing! I like to keep pressures around 10,000 or less, and I shoot a lot of 21/2" 12's at around 8000-9000. Velocity would be around 1125 to 1250 range, for all loads.
 
I use to be a big proponent of higher velocities but since I've started shooting a 16 ga. most of the time I have changed my opinion. I think anything in the 1,200-1,300 fps range is more than sufficient to adequately kill a pheasant out to 40 yds. and even beyond. I've also been reading and hearing from guys that the high velocity loads blow their patterns. Many guns seems to pattern better with slower rounds. And they are sure a whole lot easier to shoot. Tough to say which load is best unless you have patterned it in your gun. But you don't need 1,400-1,500 fps to kill a rooster.
 
Dakotazeb said:
I use to be a big proponent of higher velocities but since I've started shooting a 16 ga. most of the time I have changed my opinion. I think anything in the 1,200-1,300 fps range is more than sufficient to adequately kill a pheasant out to 40 yds. and even beyond. I've also been reading and hearing from guys that the high velocity loads blow their patterns. Many guns seems to pattern better with slower rounds. And they are sure a whole lot easier to shoot. Tough to say which load is best unless you have patterned it in your gun. But you don't need 1,400-1,500 fps to kill a rooster.
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I have to agree with this assessment. 1400-1500 will not produce a consistant patterns in a 20ga. The pressure in that load is of concern to me also. Imho it's not worth the risk of severe malfunction. If you want those speeds use a 12ga or a 10ga.:)
 
jmac said:
I have to agree with this assessment. 1400-1500 will not produce a consistant patterns in a 20ga. The pressure in that load is of concern to me also. Imho it's not worth the risk of severe malfunction. If you want those speeds use a 12ga or a 10ga.:)
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I should have clarified my last post more when I was talking about high velocities blowing patterns. I wasn't just talking about the 20 ga. but also the 12 ga. I'm just no longer convinced that all these high velocity loads are all they are cracked up to be. But it seems that's what the consumers are wanting. Or maybe the ammo companies are just doing a good job of selling the theory so they can charge higher prices for the HV loads?????

I shot more pheasants this past season than I have in any of my previous 54 seasons and the majority of them were shot with my 16 ga. loaded with 1 1/8 oz. of #6 shot at under 1,300 fps. And this coming season I plan to try some loads with 1 oz. of #6 shot at 1,200 fps.
 
I agree. Back in the 70s and 80s when we didn't know any better than to shoot the plain old Federal Duck and Pheasant loads,I don't remember having any trouble killing anything within reasonable range. I tried the fast stuff and now I'm right back to shooting 1 1/8 oz. of #6 shot at 1295 fps. I'm convinced that how God intended it to be. Out of a 16 gauge of course!
 
RK Special K said:
Estate Cartridge Co. made, for a short time, the following:

20ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz 4,6 1250fps mv


Question: Given a barrel was as thick and strong enough as needed, how fast could 1 1/8oz of lead shot be propelled from a 2 3/4", 20ga shell?

Any of you reloaders know the answer? 1425? 1650? 1950? .........
Click to expand...

Estate is a Federal brand, and I don't think you'll find any difference if you use the Federal branded ammo.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=226
 
Anyone know the answer to my mostly curious question: Forget about damage to primers, crimps, shell casings, shot, etc., how fast can 1 1/8oz of #4's be pushed from a 20ga 2 3/4" shell? I'll give you a barrel that is HARD steele, 1 foot in diameter, with a 20ga hole in the middle. Knock yourself out! How fast?
 
RK Special K said:
Anyone know the answer to my mostly curious question: Forget about damage to primers, crimps, shell casings, shot, etc., how fast can 1 1/8oz of #4's be pushed from a 20ga 2 3/4" shell? I'll give you a barrel that is HARD steele, 1 foot in diameter, with a 20ga hole in the middle. Knock yourself out! How fast?
Click to expand...

Using explosive gunpowder, 9153 fps @ 176,500 psi. The recoil would be 105,000 ft-lbs, the equivalent of 1700 10 ga magnum loads.

However if you use magnetic impulse in place of powder, about 15,000 fps.
 
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Probably would need diamond shot to keep them intact. Would be fun to fold a laughing roostie at 400 yards just before he disappears over the horizon!

Thank you for the calculations - I know where the end of the ballistics universe is now!

I will keep checking into those Eley shells and report back.
 
The hottest loads I have for the Citori 20 is Win Supreme 2 3/4" 1 oz x 1300fps, Super Pheasant 3" 1 1/4 oz x 1250 fps, and Federal 3" 1 1/4 oz x 1300 fps. I'm sure that Winny and Fed would offer a load at 1400 if feasable, although 1400 fps in any 20 GA shell sounds like pure poison.

IMHO, very few loads running over 1300 in any gauge pattern well. The Fiocchi and Rem Nitro do OK in 12GA.
 
I "learnt" to shoot by throwing lead at ruffies bursting out of thick, gnarley, tangles at age 11. I don't shoulder a gun - gets to about 3/4 - when I'm shooting "properly" the stock recoils just below the armpit - both eyes open - snap, poke, and blast - pure instinct. My "stock" is just a 10" foam grip peg. My dream job would have been a turret gunner in a B-17.

I'm not a big believer in nice round patterns - I'll take'm if that's in the cards -but I prefer sending enough "flak" in the birds immediate flight path - don't really care if the pattern is "S", "O" or "M" shaped.

I don't see much correlation between trap/skeet and WILD bird gunning. Even sporting clays is quite synthetic - but I appreciate the attempt. Its hard to replicate the real world.

Since I don't really concern myself with "felt recoil", I'd try 20ga at 1400 > `1500 > 1600........fps - as long as I can keep a grip on the pipe - I've got the weight of my 2 Benelli 20's at 4lbs, 8ozs - so that could become an issue.
 
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