December pheasant hunting should not be allowed.

F

fallcackles

New member
Yeh, this will raise some hackles. But seriously, anyone who knows these birds understand you cant keep kicking them out of limited winter cover and expect them to survive our winters or the predation that comes when they are busted out of cover. The DNR, when they allowed this put the last nail in the coffin of our pheasants. Before anyone gets riled up, let's think about this. I've lived and hunted these birds for decades around the thumb, winter cover is very, very sparse. These areas need to be protected....not hunted in time and time again in December. We have damn near lost every bird here this winter. Those birds that you guys busted out of their winter cover in December were lucky, they just died earlier in the winter. Just for a moment, think about what you are really doing next time you hunt wild birds in December.
 
In my opinion. Hunting in Dec has nothing to do with winter survival. Your problem is clear in MI. No pheasant habitat, or very little. We out here in the main pheasant belt have been hunting them in DEC for eons and to no affect. The difference is we have more nesting cover. Sure the woods and such can help for winter but the grass lands are a must for you to sustain your population. If you look at the crp or related acres in each state. Look at the harvest #,s in comparison.. Not barking back at you but trying to say I believe your wrong. You need to get the state to do more habitat. What is good for turkeys is not the same for pheasants for example. MI is a woodland state if I am correct, and also low on the pole for CRP acres right?
 
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Not hunting in december:confused: If you want more pheasants than you need more cover. Hunting them does not hurt the population you can shoot 90% of the roosters and not hurt the population. Good cover is the key to a good phez population.
 
Winter cover....Thats the point!

We dont have the winter cover thats needed for winter survival. I agree under a utopian climate that 90 percent of the roosters can be harvested but....lets get real. Those that hunt here in Dec. know exactly what I'm talking about. You bust the birds out of there very limited winter habitat you have just reduced the chances of winter survival for both hens and roosters to ZERO. Think about that next time you hunt birds Michigan in December.
 
OK you just stated your problem, they cant survive, not any cover. Get involved, get proactive, and do something about it. Start sportsman's clubs, habbitat projects, pheasants forever, talk to legislators. Vote pro sportsmen. And so on. Complaining about seasons will do absolutely nothing for you. Good luck:thumbsup:
 
I have done more than most

I have been involved with PF for 15 years. I have planted ON MY PROPERTY acres of switch grass, have two ponds with good cattail growth and food plots. Pheasant hunting is my passion but refuse to hunt them in December. Those that hunt pheasants in December in Michigan cannot see beyond the end of their own nose and are greatly impacting winter survival.
 
Dec Hunt's

Well no hunting in Dec lets see we have to stop black powder for deer for it may bust a pheasant or two out of cover, then lets stop Dec Goose an most of all Dec,Jan,Feb an 1/2 of March Rabbit hunting. All of these are on Public land open to all. An may cause cover busting of Pheasants,Be real, think about what your implying!
 
Here in SD birds die from long winters with either no cover or snow too deep to get to the food. I shoot a lot of birds in Dec before severe winter sets in, and there are still plenty of birds left going into Jan.

If you have a problem in your area, go to the DNR and complain to them.
 
I kinda see his point.While it is true that hunting pheasants in Dec. in "good habitat" will not have an effect on their overall survival,hunting them in marginal habitat might push them over the edge!I think everyone will agree that habitat is the key,so while that habitat is being created maybe a shortened season isn't such a bad idea!
 
December Bird Hunting

I can see both sides of the issue. It's great to be able to work your dog for and extra month. Not that many days with good weather. I feel guilty everytime we put a bird in the air, wondering if it will make it back to safe cover. I only run my coverts once and then move on. Yes we need more cover but with farmland selling for $6,000.00 and acre plus in my area there will be less cover not more. We may be a dying breed here in MI. If the DNR dropped the Dec. hunt it would not break my heart.
 
how do you guys feel about the December Grouse season hear in Michigan some guys are against that too.

I say let the so called experts decide if I can hunt or not if there is a season for birds I'm going to go out and hunt.
 
Huntin Birds in December is fine if you have birds. i respect the opinion of the guy who owns the property.
 
fallcackles said:
Yeh, this will raise some hackles. But seriously, anyone who knows these birds understand you cant keep kicking them out of limited winter cover and expect them to survive our winters or the predation that comes when they are busted out of cover. The DNR, when they allowed this put the last nail in the coffin of our pheasants. Before anyone gets riled up, let's think about this. I've lived and hunted these birds for decades around the thumb, winter cover is very, very sparse. These areas need to be protected....not hunted in time and time again in December. We have damn near lost every bird here this winter. Those birds that you guys busted out of their winter cover in December were lucky, they just died earlier in the winter. Just for a moment, think about what you are really doing next time you hunt wild birds in December.
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It depends on the winter. Early December is my favorite time of the year to hunt, weather permitting. Last year it was no problem. Two years ago I told guys they could not come. When the birds go into survival mode the hunting stops.
 
It's really as simple as ABC:

A. There is access to land in Dec not available in Oct or Nov.
B. There is MUCH less hunting pressure in Dec.
C. Birds with no cover will die anyway whether hunted or predator/winter kill.
Isn't it better to put those birds in your freezer than watch the hawks eat
them in Jan??? Also, too many unharvested roosters compete with hens
for winter forage.
 
Hunting birds in December is okay my friends.:)

I really don't consider it a time of the year when birds are suffering (typically).

Mid-late January with sever temps and record snow fall could be a different story for wild birds and everything else game bird/mammal. By then, the season is closed in most northern pheasant states anyway.
 
mmelton said:
how do you guys feel about the December Grouse season hear in Michigan some guys are against that too.

I say let the so called experts decide if I can hunt or not if there is a season for birds I'm going to go out and hunt.
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Many sadly feel the same way...one reason why some portions of the ruffed grouse range have increased decline issues.
"Experts" often have political state jobs and do not like to anger hunters.....good decisions do not always track with them.

Michigan tho has an advantage with snow, both for roosting and limiting access to coverts.
Ohio, for example, has no weather issues and little snow with coverts often easily accessed from roads above and below....birds would get slammed to 40% of the total harvest being in February...often by skirmish line post deer season deerhunters.
Thankfully, the ODNR shortened the season one month, to alot of hunter whining...too little and too late it was, but a good deal it was as well.
No, it is not a major decline factor, however when the birds are on a low portion of the decline curve then true late season hunting's significance increases dramatically.

Problem with the ruffed grouse is far too many folks believe the bird faces equal conditions across it's large range. They look at the upper great lakes and make assumptions for the central appalatchians...dumb, and speaks to little knowledge of the bird and what it faces rangewide. RGS deserves a large part of the blame for bad info but so do grousehunters who prefer the "it's legal, I can, I want, I will" school of grousehunting.
As a result, the ruffed grouse suffers further in some areas.
"Kill 'em while we got 'em" is not rare to hear.
I do not expect that selfishness to ever change.

Late season ruffed grouse has little comparison to late season pheasant, whole different bird and population dynamic.
 
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Here's the underlying basic problem with Michigan and all the other former pheasant states east of the Mississippi River:

12,000,000 people live in the LP of Michigan - 1960's freeway projects led a lot of these people into already crumbling habitat after the loss of the soil bank and more efficient clean farming. Michigan also agressively reforests itself in the agri-burban countryside now filled with us, which rubs pheasants the wrong way.

In the entire state of North Dakota there is only 550,000 people - 20 times less than Michigan and ND probably has 100 times more CRP and other excellent habitat features.

I'm VERY surprised that Michigan ever had good pheasant #'s. For a very brief, completely unsustainable, moment in history, they were here. That VERY fragile period existed only by tip-toeing on lily pads and razor thin ice. We fell through - it's OVER!

Look in the mirror - that's THE problem. It's pheasants or US. We now occupy almost all of the former habitat and have not maintained the tiny leftover scraps.

Pheasants need BIG SKY, horizon to horizon, grass and croplands to have large #'s of birds. We could have this only if we removed 10,000,000 of us, bulldozed out 65% of our trees, and planted 15% grass and the rest crops.

Let's face it: The eastern states ARE NOT suitable for pheasants!!!!!! These are deer and turkey states. If you want to hunt these, the eastern states are fine. But if you want to hunt pheasants, go to LOW population states with suitable habitat. Large numbers of people and large numbers of pheasants DO NOT co-exist. It's that simple!

Iowa has also now come down with terminal "pheasant cancer" - that is, too many people and too little habitat. As a pheasant destination state, it is on life support and in 3-6 years, the plug will be formally pulled, and like coroners, pheasant biologists will attempt to tell us why it died.

We've got to quit kidding ourselves and face reality:

Michigan is a good deer and turkey state so let's concentrate on making it better for those. I will add Ruffed Grouse to these but in the LP, they are under severe pressure. They don't co-exist well with lots of us either!

SD, ND, MT, NE, KS, and smaller parts of other "western states" are good for pheasants so let's concentrate on making these states better for those.
 
RK Special K said:
...Let's face it: The eastern states ARE NOT suitable for pheasants!!!!!!
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Yes, most will find limited, problematic and possibly short-term success with pheasants.

RK Special K said:
...These(eastern states) are deer and turkey states...
Click to expand...

No, not only...by a long shot.
Other gamebirds exist besides the pheasant.
Relegating those birds to a non-mention in favor of the current popular critters that gobble or sprout headgear is a large part of the problem...realized or not.

If conditions in some sections can be improved for the pheasants in the Eastern half of the country, if money is found to support the program and if the DNRs have the heart,energy and will coupled with that money then the stab at improving the pheasant's lot is a good idea in the East.
One tho must guard against falling in love with an idea and the project must be viewed on it's on merits as it proceeds.....not just the fact alone that the exercise may result in more banquet tables.
Middle ground is often the best ground.
 
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I did mention ruffed grouse but we(people) are pushing them farther north.

Case in point: I began hunting ruffies seriously as a teenager in the early seventies in areas of Michigan between Grand Rapids - Big Rapids - Mount Pleasant - Greenville. Did ok up thru the early nineties. One of my best large coverts north of Greenville had an abandoned railroad thru it and old abandoned christmas tree farm next to it. In the mid-nineties, the RR was paved over and made into a bike trail - bikes, skate boards, baby strollers now pass thru the middle of it. The old christmas tree farm was bought and a $400,000 house with a big pole barn was built on it. A large manicured and landscaped backyard was installed. The good grouse habitat on it was slashed, burned and cleared out from under the large trees. ATV trails were made for their kids to romp around on. Numerous and prominent "NO HUNTING or TRESPASSING" signs were placed on every tree that could hold a nail. This was 40 acres in the middle of rural Michigan "farmland". There are probably NO ruffies left in that area and if there is one left, it will be seen only by a well-trained birdwatcher with binoculars! I bet his yard is over-run with deer and turkeys, however.

Forget about pesticides, predators, or even clean farming(it's too late for that). Again, look in the mirror - yup, that's him! - that's the culprit. Too many of us wanting to live on a piece of rural agri-burbia!
 
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