Crop weed killer killing chicks?

USN rstr hntr

New member
Has anyone heard anything about crop weed killer killing chicks on the hatch? Several long-time hunters and farmers in Cawker City indicate that over the past 3 years (a stronger version of weed killer was introduced 3 years ago) the pheasant population has declined as a direct result of this agent. Very little birds seen on opening weekend, and those bagged were mature birds. Not a conspiracy theorist, but would be interested if anyone else has heard this?
Thanks.
 

fsentkilr

New member
There haven't been any new chemistries released in at lest 10 years, so that story isn't true. That is why we are starting to have problems with resistance, because of the lack of new products.
 

Deadbird

New member
I have always heard RoundUP ready beans are the reason for fewer quail in Missouri.

There sure are a lot more quail in western part on Kansas than Missouri. (not many soy beans in western Kansas)
 

fsentkilr

New member
Roundup is used widely in western Kansas for summer fallow weed control and burn down for no till milo or corn and it has been for decades. I bet there is as high a percentage of acres sprayed with glyphosate in western Kansas then Missouri. Edit to add, almost all of the corn planted in western Kansas is roundup ready and it's sprayed on it too.
 
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cheesy

Active member
Much of the historical Missouri quail hunting hot spots is now a desert of Fescue pastures. Along with hedge rows dozed out to make larger fields, along with weedy fencelines removed.
 

onealmck

Member
They were probably talking about dicamba. Search google. It's been in the news quite a bit lately. I'm no expert but my guess is this what your guys were talking about.
 

fsentkilr

New member
They were probably talking about dicamba. Search google. It's been in the news quite a bit lately. I'm no expert but my guess is this what your guys were talking about.
Dicamba is 45 years old and has been one of the most popular chemicals for fallow, corn and milo for that long. Dicamba beans are new which allows spraying them post emergence, but dicamba is one of the oldest chemicals around. As far as the quail decline in Missouri and and eastern Kansas, Cheesy has it right, a lot of the blame is on native grasses going to fescue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicamba

http://www.roundup.ca/en/rounduphistory
 
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all weed killers affect the bird population. Not because of something evil in them... but because they do their job and kill weeds. Weeds are critical for young birds.
 

fsentkilr

New member
all weed killers affect the bird population. Not because of something evil in them... but because they do their job and kill weeds. Weeds are critical for young birds.
That's what they are for, a farmer can't make a living growing weeds. My point was lack of birds isn't because the chemicals we are spraying are killing them. Actually, if it wasn't for some of these chemicals no till wouldn't be possible. Say bye bye to all the wheat, corn and milo stubble that is planted directly into, it would all be worked.
 

SetterNut

New member
Quail need some bare ground, low woody cover, and grass that is not too thick for chicks to move through.
Burning, getting rid of fescue and brome, and doing some light disking so the weeds come up, all help get you more quail.
Eastern KS has way more trees, fescue and brome than it used to, and fewer quail for it.
 

akp

Member
The drought was one of the best things that ever happened to our quail... never thought I’d say that in 2011 or 2012 but we’ve seen the benefits of dying grasses and forbs taking over in many places. The last few years have been very good.
 
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onealmck

Member
I didn't mean to imply that dicamba was new, only that it been in the news so folks may think it's new. I sense that the impression is that the intention is to blame farmers. I don't think that is the case at all. The reality is that widespread use of weed killers along with many other changes in farming practices have led to huge gains in productivity, making it possible for farmers to produce much higher volumes of grain on the same acres. These changes in farming practices as well as other factors over the last 40+ years have also led to a continual decline in pheasant populations across the central US. As a community we need to understand the things we can do to improve habitat that work with modern farming practices. We need to actively push our representatives to pass farm bills that work to this end and we need to actively work on the local level to pass along this knowledge so that we can make landscape level changes in habitat. Otherwise, the trend isn't going to improve.
 

fsentkilr

New member
I didn't mean to imply that dicamba was new, only that it been in the news so folks may think it's new. I sense that the impression is that the intention is to blame farmers. I don't think that is the case at all. The reality is that widespread use of weed killers along with many other changes in farming practices have led to huge gains in productivity, making it possible for farmers to produce much higher volumes of grain on the same acres. These changes in farming practices as well as other factors over the last 40+ years have also led to a continual decline in pheasant populations across the central US. As a community we need to understand the things we can do to improve habitat that work with modern farming practices. We need to actively push our representatives to pass farm bills that work to this end and we need to actively work on the local level to pass along this knowledge so that we can make landscape level changes in habitat. Otherwise, the trend isn't going to improve.
I agree with everything you said. One thing I did this year is put in pollinator plots. I planted just over 20 acres scattered around the farm. They are basically just patches of weeds. I have also been discing patches in some of our native grass draws to allow the weeds to grow. We had a really bad ice storm here a couple of years ago. It opened up the canopy on our timber and allowed more under growth which helped the quail. I didn't mean to imply that you thought dicamba was new, but another poster referred to a new chemical killing chicks. Dicamba was brought up in the same thread. There are no new chemistries so what he heard isn't true.
 
The drought was one of the best things that ever happened to our quail... never thought I’d say that in 2011 or 2012 but we’ve seen the benefits of dying grasses and Forbes taking over in many places. The last few years have been very good.
Completely agree with this. Last 4 years have been the best quail years we have had in NC/NW. Had someone opine that because crops were not growing well, because of the drought, that not as much insecticide got used and young quail and pheasants primarily survive on insects in the first months. Seems crazy with as much grain as there is but the protein in insects is vital for chick survival.
 

Prairie Drifter

Active member
Wildlife thrive on diversity! You can look at the effects of chemicals through various lenses. Yes, some have direct toxic effects on eggs, broods, and even adult birds. Conversely, the goal of most chemicals is to leave 1 plant in the field being sprayed, the crop. That isn't diversity! A diverse plant community supports a diverse insect community and bears a diverse seed crop. Modern farming, taken to the max, negates everything provided by diversity. We have to eat to live just like the quail, so the negatives end up being positives when feeding us. Somewhere we just need to find a balance. We are in a continuous cycle of grow more, price drops, idle more, price rises. The benefits of CRP was that it idled less productive land and replaced the monoculture crops on those acres with a more diverse habitat that not only protected the soil, but provided habitat for the wildlife we all prize. Just as Aldo Leopold said in the Sand County Almanac, we have to continually re-educate our leadership about every 15 years in order to regain or maintain the benefits we had gained. WE need to do a better job educating and demanding reasonable farm bill content to not only take care of our agricultural heritage, but also our wildlife heritage!!!!!!!
 

TJH

New member
Lots of Paraquat being used in place of Roundup due to the large number of roundup resistant weeds. Some studies indicate it is harmful to birds and wildlife.
 

huntsem

Member
See; "Effect of Glyphosate (Roundup) on the reproduction of pheasants , grey partridges, and quail"
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=XE8264732


"...One of the recent agronomical techniques for the improvement of pastures, foresees the use of chemical desiccants on waste expanse of lands, in order to devitalize the existing herbaceous vegetation, and sow and grow most productive forages. Among these herbicides is also Glyphosate whose effect on the fauna is the object of this research. Some tests carried out on Pheasants, Grey Partridges and Quails show that the eggs of the aforementioned Galliformes hatch in a considerably reduced percentage, if subject to Glyphosate action. The decrease is in proportion to the herbicide doses and to the size of the eggs."

Also See; Glyphosate, pathways to modern diseases II: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/#CIT0229

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hunter94

Active member
See; "Effect of Glyphosate (Roundup) on the reproduction of pheasants , grey partridges, and quail"
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=XE8264732


Also See; Glyphosate, pathways to modern diseases II: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/#CIT0229

View attachment 9192

we need reasonable farm bill content......good luck with that. never happen.

the chemical salesmen are hammering away at the producers with the advent of a greater harvest, which is most important to the farmers. environmental affects take a backseat to production.

yes, Paraquat about to take over the job Round Up can no longer do.....weeds gaining resistance.
spraying Round Up for aphids on beans will be the next problem, as this agent of control will change as well.

birds are in trouble everywhere......weather has also killed off a ton of birds in the Dak's, Montana, Minnesota, Iowa and Nebr.
 

Kansan

Member
we need reasonable farm bill content......good luck with that. never happen.

the chemical salesmen are hammering away at the producers with the advent of a greater harvest, which is most important to the farmers. environmental affects take a backseat to production.

yes, Paraquat about to take over the job Round Up can no longer do.....weeds gaining resistance.
spraying Round Up for aphids on beans will be the next problem, as this agent of control will change as well.

birds are in trouble everywhere......weather has also killed off a ton of birds in the Dak's, Montana, Minnesota, Iowa and Nebr.
RoundUp (Glyphosate) is an herbicide, not an insecticide. It only kills certain plants, not bugs.
 
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