Correct Shot Size and Choke

Dakotazeb

Dakotazeb

Well-known member
I've posted before that I participate in a competition pheasant hunt at the Ringneck Festival in Huron, SD. Been doing it for 12 years. 6 guys on a team and each hunter gets 4 shells. I am in some disagreement with these guys as to the correct shot size and choke to use in this competition. Most of the shots taken are 30-35 yards or less. Generally going away shots over a pointing dog. For this event I elect to shoot #6 shot through an IC choke. We all shoot Benelli autos. Everyone else insists on shooting #4's with a Mod choke. I realized that in most cases and if you are on the bird it isn't going to matter, BUT we seem to be having more misses and more crippled birds with the 4's and Mod. My thinking is that you want a more open choke and more pellets. Here's an example: comparing 1 1/4 oz. 12 ga. loads there are 65% more pellets in loads with 6 shot than those with 4 shot. I never use 7 1/2 shot for wild pheasants but for this competition I'm not so sure they might not be a good choice. Now I realize every gun patterns differently and until we pattern each guy's gun we won't know which load is best. Next year I plan to get everyone together and have them pattern their guns with #4's and Mod. Then I'll have them switch to 6's and IC to compare.

I thought this was an interesting issue that might get some good discussion on this site. So let me know what you think. Thanks!
 
Zeb, Sounds like you have a plan. I like your IC and #6 Plan. Your logic on the amount of pellets, makes sense to me, at those ranges. Four shells, better load those autos as single shots. Best of luck, and let us know the results.:)
 
Zeb, Have you ever tried 7 shot. You can buy factory 7 shot that is made in England. The shot size is actually 6.66 in the English measure system. I reload them with true 7 shot and for a first shot over a pointing dog like Elle, They are deadly on Wild Pheasant. I then follow them with a 6 shot in my O/U. For Chokes I use an IC first barrel and a Light Mod/Skeet2 in the second barrel. When you are doing the pattern stuff give them a try. You may like what you see. I agree the 4 shot out of Mod. Choke at those ranges are going by the bird like a rifle shot. At 25-35 yards you are just beginning to get a decent pattern from them, that is thin due to shot size.
 
Dakotazeb said:
I've posted before that I participate in a competition pheasant hunt at the Ringneck Festival in Huron, SD. Been doing it for 12 years. 6 guys on a team and each hunter gets 4 shells. I am in some disagreement with these guys as to the correct shot size and choke to use in this competition. Most of the shots taken are 30-35 yards or less. Generally going away shots over a pointing dog. For this event I elect to shoot #6 shot through an IC choke. We all shoot Benelli autos. Everyone else insists on shooting #4's with a Mod choke. I realized that in most cases and if you are on the bird it isn't going to matter, BUT we seem to be having more misses and more crippled birds with the 4's and Mod. My thinking is that you want a more open choke and more pellets. Here's an example: comparing 1 1/4 oz. 12 ga. loads there are 65% more pellets in loads with 6 shot than those with 4 shot. I never use 7 1/2 shot for wild pheasants but for this competition I'm not so sure they might not be a good choice. Now I realize every gun patterns differently and until we pattern each guy's gun we won't know which load is best. Next year I plan to get everyone together and have them pattern their guns with #4's and Mod. Then I'll have them switch to 6's and IC to compare.

I thought this was an interesting issue that might get some good discussion on this site. So let me know what you think. Thanks!
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I would shoot your combo for your reasons.
 
I agree with your # 6s through an IC choke for those ranges. I’ve read that # 6s traveling at moderate velocities can penetrate to the vitals of a pheasant out to about 45 yds. My own observations back that theory up pretty well.

If you were going to limit your range to 35 yds, #7.5s would work but a good gunner can kill birds at twice that range so it’s pretty limiting.

I shoot a lot of pen raised pheasants in training and for spaniel field trials, the majority of shots taken are well over 40 yds in order to provide a meaningful retrieve for the dogs & I sometimes take shots well beyond what I’d consider ethical for wild birds. I’ve learned that I can kill pheasants as far away as I can hit them w/ 1 ¼ oz of # 5s but I sometimes put # 4s in my top barrel reserved for an anchor shot on a cripple.
 
I realize the proof will come in patterning the guns with various loads, size shot and chokes. I thought maybe someone had done some pattern work along these lines and could give some good hands on experience.

I know that more shot does not necessarily mean more pellets in the kill zone. In the mid 80's before I had a 3" 12 ga. I did some pattern work for turkey hunting using both 1 1/4 oz. and 1 1/2 oz loads. Using a Remington 870 with a full choke I would consistantly put more pellets in the kill zone with the 1 1/4 oz. loads. It's been said for many years that the 1 1/4 oz. loads in a 12 ga. is the optimum load. I think sometimes trying to stuff too much shot down the barrel results in blown patterns. But each gun is different and that's why we need to pattern them to see what works best.
 
Chokes, shells and pheasants...

What shell and choke to use?? Seems to be a universal question and...it depends.

I shoot a 20ga, Gold, Auto. And I seem to be more consistent with 7.5's and Imp. Cyl. However, without my dog (blind) I used 3"-6's and was successful. One hunter used #5 and seemed to have fewer cripples. His gun was 12 ga, mod.coke, Remington 1100.

I recently reviewed the number of pellets in various shells - very interesting...

Lead shell: 1.25-7.5's have 437 pellets; #6 - 281 and #4 - 169. What a difference. I guess if you are a crack shot , 4's work. I seem to need all the pellets possible and still kill the bird vs cripple.

Hope this helps with this persistent question.

jon
 
I would support the use of imp cyl. in single barrel guns with #6 or even #71/2 shot, for avg. shooters at reasonable ranges of 35-40 yards. I'd use a 11/4ths to 13/8ths ounce of high antimony shot, or nickle plated since the demise of copper plating, ( now copper washed nonsense). English #7's an excellent choice in whats called a "high pheasant" load. British seem to value pattern as opposed to powder and throw weight, lots of short chambered 12's with 1 ounce loads killing lighter feathered semi wild pheasants. Their shooters by our standards are very experienced, shoot long range driven birds regularly at ranges we would view as extreme. Unfortunately few of us get the chance to learn to shoot at these ranges, so probably better to restrict range and use pattern density to increase number of leathal hits in general, but the gun will tell you with a pattern test.
 
Please re-read my original post or keep in mind that I'm not talking about normal pheasant hunting here. It's during a hunting competition with each shooter limited to 4 shells in which to harvest 3 birds. So shots are very selective. In addition you are talking about 6 seasoned hunters with above average shooting skills.
 
As long as everyone is giving their opinion I might as well give mine.

If you truly are holding your distances to 35 yards and under, IC and #6 should be fine as you have dogs for recovering the birds.

However, for normal hunting I would not rule out #4 shot as a very useful shot size, especially in windy conditions or late season. My own personal experiences are that I have had very few birds that were shot with #4's that were still alive when picked up. I can't say that about #6 shot. I started using #4 shot for the majority of my hunting probably 5 years ago and it has drastically reduced the amount of cripples or unrecoverable birds from my observations.
 
I used to play the choke tube/shot size game for different situations. Early season good conditions got one, late season windy got another, mid season good got another, etc, etc, etc. The problem was when doing that I'd always have birds jump at my feet when I had full choke and 4's in, or they'd jump at 40 yards on opening days with IC and 6's.

The last several years has been nothing but 1 3/8 of 5's through a modified choke. It is overkill on the close ones, but it does reach out and touch them at the ranges I should limit myself to.
 
I agree with Birdshooter here, I use #5 if possible because it is the best of both worlds. If not #4 very few cripps.
 
You are dead on when you say you have to pattern each gun. I personally think for competition shooting 4's leave too many holes in the pattern. Randy Wakeman has written scores on the subject with proof to back up his theories. He happens to also like Tru-Lock chokes as they get more pellets in the kill zone and a consistent pattern.

for your reading pleasure: http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2c.shotguns.htm
 
Calisdad said:
You are dead on when you say you have to pattern each gun. I personally think for competition shooting 4's leave too many holes in the pattern. Randy Wakeman has written scores on the subject with proof to back up his theories. He happens to also like Tru-Lock chokes as they get more pellets in the kill zone and a consistent pattern.

for your reading pleasure: http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2c.shotguns.htm
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Unfortunately Randy is only commenting on his own experiences with the guns he uses. He can't possibly know what will work best for everyone and their gun nor the conditions with which they use them under or even their wingshooting ability. Many variables here and each one of us has to find what works best for us under the conditions and abilities that we use them under.

#4 shot may leave holes in patterns out of yours and Randy's gun, but they sure don't in mine. How do I know? because I've patterned MY gun with MY chokes at different yardages that's how.

P.S. The best way to sweeten the pattern with #4's is to go to a slightly bigger load size. In my case I use 1 3/8 oz. when shooting 4's.
 
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Beretta 686 O/U. Briley Light Modified and Modified choke tubes. Fiocchi GPX 1 3/8 oz #4 shot. One "knocked down" unrecovered wild rooster will ruin my hunting experience for the entire day, so I do absolutely everything possible to avoid it. I've shot hundreds of roosters with IC and Modified choke using Win XX 1 1/2 #5 shot, but tightening up my bottom barrels choke and changing loads has been shockingly better. I can actually see the birds being hit with more energy.
 
I'd go for #5 and IC especially in your tournament format where I assume a well anchored or dead bird is ideal.

If you shoot well--meaning you typically center your patterns on the bird--I could be convinced I'm splitting hairs I suppose--but going away wild pheasants can take a bit more to drive pellets into vitals and kill them in the air or bring them down hard. Heavier #5's do that more readily than #6's do in my experience. I usually save my #6's for preserve birds.

It does pay to pattern guns but that won't tell you how far the shot that hit's the target will penetrate the bird.
 
niceshot said:
Beretta 686 O/U. Briley Light Modified and Modified choke tubes. Fiocchi GPX 1 3/8 oz #4 shot. One "knocked down" unrecovered wild rooster will ruin my hunting experience for the entire day, so I do absolutely everything possible to avoid it. I've shot hundreds of roosters with IC and Modified choke using Win XX 1 1/2 #5 shot, but tightening up my bottom barrels choke and changing loads has been shockingly better. I can actually see the birds being hit with more energy.
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I agree 100% with what you have written. I changed to a light Mod and Mod Carlson extended tubes in my Browning Cynergy. I had been using Imp cylinder and Mod. Too many wounded birds with the Imp cylinder. The light Mod cured near all of that. I will be adding the light Mod tube to my other upland bird guns also. I never have been a lover of the Imp cylinder choke. This just proved my reasons for not liking it.

I know a older gentleman who writes a lot on patterning and reloading. He swears to never use a ported choke. He always gets better patterns with a non ported tube. As speeds increase in the load. The more you need to open the choke. Ramming high speed loads though too tight of constriction for the speed of the shot only leads to blown patterns. Slow the load down and you can tighten up the choke
 
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Bottom Line: Pattern your guns and go with what works best for you.

Personally I have shot an IC choke in 12 ga. for pheasants for over 30 years and wouldn't use anything else. Anyone I hunt with will tell you that I shoot more birds than any of them. It just flat works the best for me. And I do it through a 24" barrel in my Benelli. Never used anything longer than a 26" barrel. I'm not trying to open another discussion on barrel length. I'm only pointing out that you go with what works the best for you and this has worked for me for a long time.
 
Dakota:

Years ago I purchased a 26" IC barrel for my 12 ga, mainly for grouse. I also started using same for pheasants and had great success.
The difference in pattern at 35-40 yd,, IC vs Mod is very small I can't tell the difference between the two chokes. Anything beyond 40 yd for my 20 ga I pass.

How's the hunting around Aberdeen?

jon
 
Hunting has been very good around here. Waht a difference a year can make. A lot less water and all the crops are out. I've already shot about as many pheasants so far this year as I did all of last year.
 
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