Control without the collar

FCSpringer

Super Moderator
I thought it would be nice to discuss how you get the dogs under control with out a collar. In many of my training pics, well most. You will notice no e collar. I have various ways of accomplishing this. A dog gets hot spots and sores from a collar as we all know, from prolonged use. It is a shorter time period then some may think. So it is important to be able to have the team player with or without a collar. Not to mention the field trials I attend, you can not use them. What do you do. I will post back a few ideas later. This will help some getting started with there first dog or problem areas.
 

Calisdad

New member
I find the whistle to be a tool I can't be without. Repetition. Repetition. Repetition. I use it on our daily walks and it has become automatic. I swear I can turn him around in mid air. I don't leave home without it.
 

bobeyerite

New member
I always try to train my dogs to answer to 3 commands. Voice, Whistle and hand/arm. Tony at times stops and looks at me. All I have to do is point in the direction I am going or want to go. But like Calisdad said that takes a lot Repetitions. My dogs always wear their collars in the field. But I take them off as some as possible. I should add I use them very rarely.........Bob
 

jmac

Super Moderator
fcs,

Finally old school, I have to agree with you 100 percent. I do not like e-collars. I think they are really good for ruining dogs. However, I know they have become the standard in dog training world.

I know I am going to get pounded on this and that is okay. Trained my dogs with a mouth whistle, not a whistle that I blew through the mouth. And a pheasant wing on a fly pole as pups. Worked just fine. Do not need the e-collar. Now that is old school. Pound away fellows!:D
 

FCSpringer

Super Moderator
I don't think anyone will dish you a pounding at all. I use the same things. I often forget my whistle. So I am lucky to have one of those deafning mouth whistles. Otherwise known as a shepards whistle. I use both the collar and positive reinforcement. Some soft dogs you just can not use hardly any if at all collar. How do some of you guys keep a dog in controll while hunting? with out a collar.
 

Calisdad

New member
My dog is controller wise. If he has his collar on and is bouncing around in the truck all I have to do is hold up the controller. If I hold up my cell phone, which looks much like it, he knows the difference and just ignores me.

If we are in the field, collarless, and he gets too rangy, I just hide.
 

bobeyerite

New member
This is a good question Ken, I think it starts with "Basic Training". I Work with the dog on and off a leash until I have "instant obedience". Then I take them afield. With the 3 Means of Control, they do what is right. I should add I run my dogs daily in the field. So when we go hunting everything is fresh and they know how to act..........Bob
 

BritChaser

Active member
I always try to train my dogs to answer to 3 commands. Voice, Whistle and hand/arm. Tony at times stops and looks at me. All I have to do is point in the direction I am going or want to go. But like Calisdad said that takes a lot Repetitions. My dogs always wear their collars in the field. But I take them off as some as possible. I should add I use them very rarely.........Bob
ditto - all three
 

Nimrod

New member
I start a pup out using a clicker & treats to teach basic obedience. This also starts the pup out w/ a great attitude toward training. As he gets a little older, I switch from â??click-treatâ?� to â??click-retrieveâ?�, and eventually phase out the click.

I prefer to use positive reinforcement as much as possible for example, when the dog is punching out too far, I roll in a clip winged pigeon & call him back to find it near me. This gives him the idea that heâ??ll find birds close to me. If heâ??s not covering one side of his beat, Iâ??ll plant consecutive birds on that side and cast him downwind of the bird so he learns that when I give a cast, he should take it.
 

jmac

Super Moderator
This is a good question Ken, I think it starts with "Basic Training". I Work with the dog on and off a leash until I have "instant obedience". Then I take them afield. With the 3 Means of Control, they do what is right. I should add I run my dogs daily in the field. So when we go hunting everything is fresh and they know how to act..........Bob
Bob, britchaser, great points, could not agree more. you dont spend time with the dog, when its young, imo, you've missed your opportunity, to teach that dog, to hunt. JUst like kidds, your better, get control of them, when they are young. :D
 
Good dogs are born to hunt. Literally. All you need to do is steer them a bit.

Control in the form of training commands is another thing.

I subscribe to the notion that an e-collar is best used to reinforce commands already learned, not to train (with a few exceptions).

But my dogs still wear a collar for a myriad of reasons while hunting most of the time. If I have to use it for much of anything though I'm not a happy camper.

And while I use voice and whistle commands for pheasants and other open country birds I like to work with hand or visual cues. Nothing better than to hunt a big field, back and forth--without any words spoken or whistle blown. Do it right and your dog while watch you and turn to hunt in front of you as soon as it sees you change direction--NO commands needed!
 

Calisdad

New member
Good points. How many times have you taken a new pup in the field and he did something to make you say: "I can't teach that dog to hunt. He already knows."

Three years ago my hunting partner went deaf. It didn't matter what I said so I shut up. What a pleasure to go out in the field and not say a word. Great times.
 

kurts

New member
e-collar

I really worked hard with my Brit on voice, whistle and hand signals and held out as long as I could. Finally started with the e-collar to keep her from running across the street to the neighbor dog and keep her close on our winter runs. Rarely need to use it in the field. She's still young and you never know how they'll react to deer,coons and skunks so it's nice to have the extra control for those situations.
 

boberosagundogs

New member
I think that alot of the training helps with a well bred dog that is eager to please. Constant reptition and working a dog 4-5 days per week even if it is just basic obedience is a must. Most problems with obedience are owner created. Maintaining constant discipline will help in not relying on a collar. The use of check cords, heeling sticks, leads, and positive reinforcement are all great tools to use in teaching the basics.
 

Shadow

Banned
fcs,

Finally old school, I have to agree with you 100 percent. I do not like e-collars. I think they are really good for ruining dogs. However, I know they have become the standard in dog training world.

I know I am going to get pounded on this and that is okay. Trained my dogs with a mouth whistle, not a whistle that I blew through the mouth. And a pheasant wing on a fly pole as pups. Worked just fine. Do not need the e-collar. Now that is old school. Pound away fellows!:D
not by me- sounds like what worked for me- I'm old school- came from the north on a Thanksgiving vist with my uncle- before dinner we went out- women were preparing and they sort of liked us out of the way- brother-in-law and my other uncle were the leaders- a Britt and an English Pointer- 1970-
rule- no rabbits- no shooting at anything not pointed- no trying to talk or control the dogs- quail- unbeliveable- got hooked

finished College and drove down- stayed with brother-in-law- whew he was strict
before fall they took me skeet shooting a bit, dove hunting a bit- good practice for uplands- they had a couple freinds- 11-14 dogs on the ground sometimes- all must have manners- all must not point rabbits or mice or fur- noone talks to or tries to control someones dog- second year they gave me a young small English pointer

to this day in honor of them- I'm old school- don't have a shock collar- have had pointing dogs only ever since- 1985 was my first Britt- been a Britt guy ever since

Old School- lost art maybe
 

beaglebob1

New member
My dog is controller wise. If he has his collar on and is bouncing around in the truck all I have to do is hold up the controller. If I hold up my cell phone, which looks much like it, he knows the difference and just ignores me.

If we are in the field, collarless, and he gets too rangy, I just hide.
I never let my dogs see the controller when training. We start out with live quail then move live quail to remote launchers. Never raise my voice but keep it stern.
We use tritronics with beeper mode most of the time and very seldom hit the juice. Of course we have a check cord on them as well. When older it depends on where we are hunting if I collar the dogs.
My 2 cents.;)
Bobby G
 

1pheas4

Super Moderator
I always try to train my dogs to answer to 3 commands. Voice, Whistle and hand/arm. Tony at times stops and looks at me. All I have to do is point in the direction I am going or want to go. But like Calisdad said that takes a lot Repetitions. My dogs always wear their collars in the field. But I take them off as some as possible. I should add I use them very rarely.........Bob
Bob and FC, this may be a dumb question for pro dog guys but as you know I've been working with my young chocolate lab Winston. I was wondering how the two of you teach dogs hand and arm commands. Thanks for any help.-1pheas4:)
 

bobeyerite

New member
The way I have Tony trained is One short blast of the whistle-Look at me. 2 short blast-come/here. one long blast-"WHOA". in the field I have found my voice ineffective. So I use only the whistle. To teach the arm singles, I just gave him 1 short on the whistle-with my arm out strected pointing and then walked in that direction. It did not take long and he would the direction of the pointed arm. In some books I have read they claim you can do it using a 20 foot check cord. Blow the whistle and just walk in the direction. Let the check cord tell him to come along. Just keep changing direction and soon they know.......Bob
 

1pheas4

Super Moderator
(ignore the "thumbs down". I have no idea how that got there and how to remove it!)

Thanks for your reply Bob.:cheers:

One other thing maybe you or others can weigh in on. I was thinking last night of a possible way to train Winston on hand/arm commands. Let me know what you think about this.

I will place a pheasant dummy to my left and one to my right. Holding the dog on the cord, get him focused on the one on my left, ready to retrieve, and command him accordingly with hand/arm commands. Then doing the same thing for the dummy on our right. As he grasps hand/arm commands to go left or right, I will begin to move the dummies further out from myself and Winston, continuing to command him left, right. Then my next step would be to move into taller grasses were he then can't see the dummies and begins to rely on my hand commands.

I suppose I'm just using the lure of the dummies to teach in left, right hand/arm commands. What's your input on this? I'm I making more work for myself and Winston than necessary?
 
i dont particularly like using the collar either but i always put it on just in case one of them still has some peanut butter in their ears and incase we are heading towards a road you never know who may b flying down the road
 
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