6 month old GSP and pigeons, now what?

E

EEK

New member
I have a 6 month old GSP, he is retrieving and can find everything i put in the field and bring it as well, basic obediance is done, so i got some pigeons and he really wants them, i planted some and he went right to them but then they flush of course, should i let him chase them or keep him in one place? Any other advice would be welocmes as this is still all new to me.
 
I also am training my 1st dog. I have a 7 month old and what I am doing with her on pigeons is check cord her till she scents them and then holding her while someone gets the pigeon up. I have a buddy who was a trainer for 17 years helping me right now and I am just following what he tells me. At the present time she will hold and point on the pigeon scent. I also use a garden hose tied to the pigeons to keep them from flying too far so I can retrieve them. Just do not let your dog catch the pigeons. Before I got help, I ran my dog on some wild pheasants, she did this between the months of 3 1/2 to 6 months old, toward the end she finally realized she couldn't catch them and started pointing them, but still was still running in on them when I would walk toward her to flush the bird.

Your welcome to pm me if you have any questions.

Rod
 
EEK
What i have done with my dogs. Not to say it's right but when first starting out I will let them chase the birds to get them excited (to inforce the prey drive.) Then when I know the pup is birdy and pointing the birds I start the holding to flush. I place a pinch collor on the dog then i flush the bird if the dog leaves he gets pinched. they learn really fast to hold points and to stay on point. I do not like a dog that chases a bird good way for the dog to get shot. Good Luck:)
 
whoa

HOPE THIS HELPS....
I like the silent command system... (brief version of what I do)
Your dog needs to understand whoa, before he can know what you want...
he will naturally point or flash point for ya, and then creep in...thats a good thing...he wants it!!!
tie a rope with a half hitch under your dogs belly around the hips and let the rest of the rope go between his back legs.... tie this end of the rope to something stationary...I use a 20ft. rope...tie it to a "pole", tree, or bumper...... used em all....
now take another rope and hook on his collar around his neck... get in front of the dog and coax him towards ya until the rope tightens around his hips.. now keep control and tug him towards ya until he settles down and doesnt move... when he looks away or moves ...give a quick tug...DONT say anything
,,,put your open hand out in front of you as a sign (like stop) hold him there for 1 minute the first time...and then increase slowly to 2 minutes..as the days progress...... the more you do it you will see as soon as that rope tightens around his hips, he will take a step back and freeze....(progress)
do this for a wk...short sessions of 10 min......then once hes not fighting ya, if you have an ecollar...now its time to put the ecollar around his belly...yep his belly where your half hitch was.this is where you begin to yell whoa...I will stop here...if your serious about trying it shoot me an email.. I will try to help...just passing on what someone did for me... when you get to the ecollar ...email me..so i can help..this has done wonders for my dogs..even the most stubborn
 
Drahthaar's advice is damn solid. Similar to the method I use, but I don't use the half hitch with the check cord. That said, it is also involved. If you have never used a belly band and electricity around birds before, it isn't a bad idea to solicit help from someone who has experience.

I can say that I have done both, let em chase and not let em chase. I will never let one chase again, not to any appreciable amount anyway. Realing them back in (especially shorthairs) is just too damn much work. I haven't seen too many that needed to chase to build prey drive. The breed in general has a TON of drive. I will allow about the same amount of chase that would occor for a normal retrieve (i.e. 30-40 yards). Anymore than that, is unacceptable to me.

I actually like to break the chase (stop-to-flush) before I do too much pointing drills. I use this succession. The verbal whoa command reinforced with the stop sign hand. After that, overlay the belly band (lowest possible setting). Give him a cont. stim. and almost immediately after, give the verbal whoa command. When he stops, stop the stim. If he moves, give him cont stim and another verbal whoa. He has to learn that he can turn the stim on and off. From there I go into stop to flush drills. Run him in the field with a bag of pigeons around your shoulder. As he's checking in release a pigeon. When he starts to chase, hit the cont stim belly band and give the verbal whoa. He's learning stop to flush. After he's 100% on that (give it 1-2 months for the whole process) introduce planted birds. If he creeps, and he will, hit him with the belly band until he plants his feet.

All that said, 6 months is young. I might advise not whoa breaking him for another 4 months or so. Some dogs mature faster, some slower.

Anyway, that's the condensed version of what has worked for me. Lots of ways to skin a cat. And like I said, get some help if this is new to you. The first time I did this was over the course of 2 months with a pro.
 
EEK said:
I have a 6 month old GSP, he is retrieving and can find everything i put in the field and bring it as well, basic obediance is done, so i got some pigeons and he really wants them, i planted some and he went right to them but then they flush of course, should i let him chase them or keep him in one place? Any other advice would be welocmes as this is still all new to me.
Click to expand...

Check out the DVDs The Perfect Start and The Perfect Finish. I read and watch everything and to me these where by far the best to date.
good luck,:cheers:
bobby g
 
GSP...
right on!! the stop to flush thing and the ecollar on the belly ...you nailed it!!:):thumbsup:
you know, the steady to wing and shot thing has been always a debate...
for trials and things its a must.
But now I am just into hunting and part time guiding.. I kind of like a dog who can bring back a cripple for a young hunter who might have winged one...so the 30 yd chase is good in a way.... as long as you got safe shooters watching the dog....
 
Couldn't agree more draht. I think there's a real solid argument for a gun dog that is NOT STWS. That said, I still take my meat dog there in training situations. Completely break them on pigeons, STWS and STF. However, on wild birds, I let him back slide. If he breaks at the shot on wild birds, I'm fine with it. Actually, I prefer it for the reasons you mentioned. I don't hunt him broke. Not only for the reasons of a cripple, but I'm just not interested in watching with the eyes in the back of my head if he breaks at the shot in a hunting situation. You've really got to stay on a dog to keep it broke while hunting. Just not that important to me. However, I still won't let him chase beyond a normal retrieve.

I find that taking them past the point you expect in training (STWS) makes them incredibly staunch on wild birds and limits the chase to a manageble 40'ish yards. Just my method. Lots of ways to skin a cat. YMMV.
 
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