Teaching her to stay in range?

J

jflewis88

Member
I've got a pointing lab, 2 yrs old. If she can see me, she generally stays within about 20 yards. However, when we get into the deep/thick stuff, I lose sight of her (despite her blaze vest) and she loses sight of me - she disappears about 8 or 10 yards out.

If she finds a bird, she'll stand on point as long as the bird holds... But, as you all know, the rooster that is inclined to sit still is pretty rare, especially on warmer days.

If she gets on a running bird, she'll chase it until it flushes. Unfortunately, if I can't see her, this sometimes happens 60 yards out or more. I haven't nicked her or hollered at her when this happens, as I don't want her to think that getting after those birds is going to get her in trouble. I've been hoping she'd connect the dots and learn from experience that birds going up out of range don't get her a retrieve, but she just gets so excited when they run that all she can think about is chasing.

I'd really like to teach her to stay within range even if she can't see me. How is this accomplished without putting her off birds?

Any/all tips are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
Keeping Track of a Dog in High Cover

What you need is a bell attached to the dog's collar so you know exactly where it is. An alternative is a collar that makes a noise when the dog is motionless, presumably on point. With a bell - a simple, cheap, utterly reliable device - when the bell stops ringing your dog is probably on point. A dog chasing a running bird is usually a fruitless endeavor. With a bell you will know if your dog is trailing a bird out of range and you can decide whether to follow or bring back the dog. Good luck.
 
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bell?

i agree with lots of things with you brit but not the dreaded here we are pheasants start running we are here to kill you bell!
 
I just bought a RoamEO GPS for my dog. In the tall weeds he can be 10 yards from me and I cannot see him. We have weeds here that are almost as tall as I am. The waist high stuff I can see him. With the GPS, I can locate him quickly and get to him to take care of his point..........Bob
 
only a pointer said:
i agree with lots of things with you brit but not the dreaded here we are pheasants start running we are here to kill you bell!
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Outside of spending upwards of $500 on a Garmin Astro or the like, what's the alternative to a bell or beeper? I'd like to run my dog silent, but I'd never know where he is, much less when he goes on point.
 
wisturkeyhunter said:
Why do you want a pointing dog to stay in range?
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Cuz the birds don't usually just sit there while she points, waiting for me to find her 50 yards away. Maybe you're hunting less jumpy pheasants, but the wild roosters out where I go are pretty inclined to go for a quick jog or fly away within a few seconds of her pointing them. If she's out too far, they are gone before I get to her.
 
Bells and Pheasants

only a pointer said:
i agree with lots of things with you brit but not the dreaded here we are pheasants start running we are here to kill you bell!
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I know some think that way, but I don't believe that bells put pheasants on alert.
 
bobeyerite said:
I just bought a RoamEO GPS for my dog. In the tall weeds he can be 10 yards from me and I cannot see him. We have weeds here that are almost as tall as I am. The waist high stuff I can see him. With the GPS, I can locate him quickly and get to him to take care of his point..........Bob
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Thanks, Bob - I like that idea. She's got a fairly quiet beeper on her collar and I use it to call her back to me when she's too far out (beats hollering "HERE" or blowing a whistle that every bird within 1/4 mile can hear). With a GPS, I would know when to hit that beeper to reel her in... Does the roameo tell you at a glance how far away the receiver is? It would have to be pretty quick & easy to locate her for it to be an effective tool.
 
jflewis88 said:
Cuz the birds don't usually just sit there while she points, waiting for me to find her 50 yards away. Maybe you're hunting less jumpy pheasants, but the wild roosters out where I go are pretty inclined to go for a quick jog or fly away within a few seconds of her pointing them. If she's out too far, they are gone before I get to her.
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Welcome to one of the many joys of hunting pheasants with a pointing dog. The runners can often be relocated. The birds that flush prior to your arrival will live to be pointed again.
 
Noisemaker Will Get You Shots

jflewis88 said:
Cuz the birds don't usually just sit there while she points, waiting for me to find her 50 yards away. Maybe you're hunting less jumpy pheasants, but the wild roosters out where I go are pretty inclined to go for a quick jog or fly away within a few seconds of her pointing them. If she's out too far, they are gone before I get to her.
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With some kind of noisemaker, the second you're alerted to the dog being motionless, you can quickly move to the dog. I hunt nothing but wild birds throughout the long KS season, till the end of Jan., and when I am in cover that will hide my dog, my dog always has a bell on and it helps me bag birds, no doubt about it.
 
BritChaser said:
With some kind of noisemaker, the second you're alerted to the dog being motionless, you can quickly move to the dog. I hunt nothing but wild birds throughout the long KS season, till the end of Jan., and when I am in cover that will hide my dog, my dog always has a bell on and it helps me bag birds, no doubt about it.
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Roger that - thanks, mate. I'll give it a go and see how we do! Merry Christmas!
 
I'd address three points. First, there is no need for a pointing dog to stay within gun range. Their purpose is to range and seek birds that you wouldn't flush yourself walking. Second, if you want more control of your dogs range, you need to teach it to quarter and turn on the whistle. Once you have that accomplished you can shorten the dog with a pip of the whistle. You teach it on the check chord on an open piece of ground like the baseball diamond. As the dog naturally quarters, every time the dog reached 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock in front of you pip the whistle and with an arm point and exagerated body lean point and turn to the opposite clock point as you work across the field. In a few sessions you will be able to reduce and eliminate turning as the dog will take the hand and body signals with the whistle. When you have the dog watching you so you can turn it with any of the indicators, you're on your way to better control. Finally, teach the dog to stop to flush. While doing the quartering, launch or throw birds and stop the dog with the check chord, you can also use some kind of a vocal signal or whistle signal for this. Done enough, most dogs will translate a running bird the with a flushing bird and stop on their own allowing you to "let" them relocate when you're in range to make the shot.
 
Staying in range...a lifelong training issue, one that takes continual reinforcement and starts when the dog is very young.

I have made the mistake in letting (dogs -4 of them) range too far when on walks, or letting others walk the dog and not keeping him on a long lead or in range. This habit then transfers to the field and the dog learns it's OK to chase or range too far, especially when running after a rooster.

I use a bell. I don't believe it alerts the birds any more than talking or closing a car door. They know you are coming, especially if there is a flock and one decides to leave. Then they all get up and go.

When the dog gets too far, or when I can't see him, I call and then give a warning buzz, then the shock if there is no response. My dogs have been extremely aggressive when it comes to hunting pheasants - difficult to hold them back! This system seems to work and I confess the dog didn't break this year and give chase, and ruin our shooting.

I spend more time keeping him range than any other training element!

Jon
 
I would let dog get out there and hunt. I bet the reason the birds are flushing wild is they hear you coming and decide to leave. I have hunted wild birds in ND all my life, I let my shorthair get out there 200-300 yards. I woud say average range is 100-150yds. I have seen many a rooster hold well. If they do flush wild it is usually when I am within 50 or so yds of the dog pointing and I feel I am the one that caused the flush and not the dog. It takes some getting used to but I bet you will shoot more birds if you let the dog do its thing.
 
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