Raise out of state fees!!

well as a out of state pheasant hunter that has come to Kansas for many years, made very close friends with farmers there has seen the good and bad.
We dont complain on cost of license. The complaint is we will pay the fees but the crp and walk in conditions dont warrant it. I don't know how you can raise fees when most of the wiha is so poorly managed. The one thing that really struck my husband and I since we started coming here were the farmers we meet are great people but are not hunters and only hunt ONE weekend of the year for pheasant. The hunting practice that is used is not giving the pheasant a chance. The get as many people 20-30 and block the ends of the field and then just blast them, don't see much of a difference in the previous comment on the quail covey.
We have been devoted to coming every year and have spent alot of money and traveled 13+ hrs to leave very disappointed in the hunting but the friends were what was bringing us back. We live for this time of year, pheasant hunting is the best time of year travel all over BUT this year we are not planning on spending it on Hunting trips to Kansas. We will be making our annual thanksgiving visit to see our farmer friends but our hunting trips are planned outside Kansas.

The last 2 years when we have been there has hardly been any hunters and motels were empty. Kansas has been ignoring the signs and I am sure the income and profits from out of state hunters revenue that have been declining are noticed and hopefully will start to do some proactive practices.

I also am an out of state hunter. I disagree with the generalization of out of state hunters. We have a problem in general with unethical hunters though out the country. In Colorado I met a wild life officer that was performing a sting. He put out a foam dear, the kind use for archery practice. It was out of season, and they arrested and ticketed 20+ people for shooting the deer decoy at night.
Now to the management of WIHA areas. I drive for miles and find WIHA that are bare dirt. Or worse, a thin field of public hunting surrounded by rich thick cover which is private. Then on to the next WIHA "opportunity." Eventually, this practice of providing poor to horrible WIHA will discourage out of state hunters. I hunt KS because it is a friendly place, and people want us out of state hunters to enjoy themselves as we bring in money that helps small towns during their low season. I do take offence at generalizations about unethical out of state hunters. I have has locals come into a field while I was hunting, a small 1/4 section plot, parking right next to my car. Unethical people are just part of our society and aren't limited to state boundaries. In general, hunters (and fishermen) are respectful of the land, the water and of other outdoorsmen (women included of course). Our society is becoming more hostile to people that don't think exactly as they do, let's not bring this to hunting. All we can do is try to be a good steward of the land and water and hope that good ethics is contagious.
That said, I hope that the WIHA will be managed better in the future. I hunt by myself and with two English setters. Hunting is hard enough on public land without the feeling that we are unwanted.
 
Just a few comments on this thread's discussion. Just food for thought. Look at the "bird Range Map-Ring-necked Pheasant" in North America and around the world, zome in on the center of the the country. This map range is accurate.

https://ebird.org/map/rinphe

Why don't we work on expanding the wild pheasant range. I can say with certainty that wild reproducing pheasants exit in the wild where they did not exist 40 or 50 years ago. Maybe a wider or expanded wild pheasant range would decrease the drive for some pheasant hunters and take the hunting pressure out of some areas.

The wild pheasant range in North America is not done with its expansion. We need an importation of new authentic wild Ring-necked pheasants directly from Asia who's parents have never lived in a pen (F1) , with predator wary agile and alert genes. This type of wild pheasant would speed up wild pheasant expansion. All of the Mallard ducks we hunt in North America came from Asia around 5,000 years ago.
 
Not mine. There is more pressure than I have ever seen. Kansas advertising has paid off.

Bullocks. Pheasant hunters are down by 40,000 from just 2000 in Kansas. Quail hunters are down 50,000. And those number don’t compare to how many people hunted in the 60s and 70s.
 
Bullocks. Pheasant hunters are down by 40,000 from just 2000 in Kansas. Quail hunters are down 50,000. And those number don’t compare to how many people hunted in the 60s and 70s.

If those numbers are put out by the KDWPT then they are as bogus as the pheasant forecast it puts out each year.
 
You don’t have to spend much time in bird hunting towns during pheasant season to know hunter numbers are down, if you choose not to believe in things like numbers and math.
 
I haven't made it out yet, I still have some beans to get out. When I am done I hope to practically live in Dodge. I did have two neighbors go out and they did quite well. They say pheasants everywhere they hunted and ended up one short of their limit on pheasants and shot a lot of quail also. They hunted Tuesday and Wednesday and only saw one other hunter. I have a friend who owns a restaurant/bar and she said hunter numbers were down from last year.
 
Our hotel was full. We hunted two walk ins near town. Had them both completely to ourselves. One was a quarter section and the other was a half section. Found birds in both. We saw comparable numbers to last season.
 
Yes, I've been so surprised it has turned out this way. I've never been on a forum where Kansas hunters complain about stuff. Oh wait.
 
Yep it's not even entertainment anymore. If we are going to bicker over things we have no control over. Quail harvest and 12 month carryover. Come on when was the last time you saw a tailgate picture with a 24 bird limit let alone a 96 bird limit. Not enough we had to hear it the first time, now there is a second thread on it. If this is all this page is going be it's time to let it die.
 
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Never hunted quail, don’t know much about them. I’ve learned a lot from this thread. Never knew about shooting too many from a covey, not shooting on the rise (still confused about that) and tracking singles down instead.
 
My family (sister/brother) have been going through drama/divorce with their respective families, so my family (wife & 3 kids) found an old farm house to rent near Hays for a nice family Thanksgiving. I figured it's not too far of a drive to Kansas and heck I can do some bird hunting in KS for the first ever. After reading these posts I'm TERRIFIED!!! I just wanted a simple retreat and how a couple threads have been going it has me poopin' my upland pants! LOL, all joking aside there definitely has me guessing. I'm sure I'll see more birds there than I do in MO, but might not see smiling faces. I'm hoping it's the typical cases of the minority being loud and most people I encounter will be great. I'll be sure to respect their space and land when I'm out there. Wish me luck!
 
This is no different than Missourians whining about OOSers on duck forums. It's 95% just how the internet is. The other 5% is there's some "hunters" who think they own what is public.
 
You don’t have to spend much time in bird hunting towns during pheasant season to know hunter numbers are down, if you choose not to believe in things like numbers and math.

Hunter numbers are down, I agree with that. In SEK especially. Once a quail mecca, they have disappeared from Crawford, Cherokee, Neosho counties. But those hunters left congregate heavily to western Kansas hunting pheasants and quail when we have them. With the disease of leasing, it makes competition even worse. Much harder to gain permission to hunt now versus what it was back in the late 60's and 70's when I started hunting. While I do agree that hunter numbers are down, the competition to find a spot to hunt is harder than ever. Pheasants are more concentrated with the extreme loss habitat versus the habitat we had 50 years ago. Habitat loss is the reason quail have disappeared from SEK. Hedgerows, over grown pastures, native grasses are now gone. What pastures are left are worthless fescue.
 
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I lived my first 30 years in Kansas, 10 now in Colorado. We (as in Colorado portion of me) feel the same way at elk season. And in the same breath; I had a bag of pointers on my persons before I was 12 years old on the same piece of land I’d get called an OOSer now. Change the hunter, not the state. Very little protection from poor manners...and that goes well beyond hunting and fishing.
 
Okay, now that folks have had the chance to vent, lets do the math and science. Aw, heck, I'll start with History! At the beginning of the 1900's, 50% of Kansas residents hunted. Over time, folks have become more and more separated from the land. Currently, only 6% of Kansas residents hunt. Despite PETA's claim that they are helping wildlife, we all know that hunters are the only ones contributing to habitat management through normal funding streams. Honestly, farmers are doing much of it. Funding for wildlife management in the state comes from license sales and excise taxes on hunting equipment through the Pitman Robertson act. Those sources are why we have WIHA at all. Without them, we all would be searching for places we would have to get permission or a lease on in order to hunt at all.

Now lets mix the math and science. We all know what the law is. Laws are set to manage a species at the statewide level. All that is relative to the conditions and use at the field level. There will be sites where the don't kill a covey below 8 birds works and sites where it won't matter. The problem with that arbitrary rule is that it depends more on the population numbers in the area and the size of both the heavily hunted space (WIHA) and the amount of similar habitat surrounding it. Confused yet? I'll work on that. If you have a quarter section of WIHA and it's the only reasonable quail cover around, shooting a covey below 8 will have a significant impact. Theoretically, If there were 4-15 bird coveys on that quarter, you could, by using the shoot down to 8 rule, start with 60 birds and end the year at 8. Even that is bad science, because the two legged source of mortality, us, isn't the only source eating quail for supper. Since quail coveys intermingle and redistribute amongst one another on almost a daily basis, the stop at 8 rule has limited value when viewed from the "local" population perspective. Instead, shooting that 60 bird population down to 36 (40% kill) makes more sense, but to do that in a publicly open setting is impossible. In the long term, such a population is probably headed for extermination.

If we now move to a larger habitat footprint, the rules change. If that quarter is surrounded by other private land of equal quality and population with much lighter hunting pressure, spring ingress and egress will once again populate that quarter with quail, and with reasonable reproductive success, those acres will once again repopulate to a similar number. westernksbowhunter has it right. Habitat quantity and quality is responsible for the decline in quail from the east coast to the far western reaches of their range. We should welcome out-of-state hunters just as they should welcome us in their state. We all are sharing the cost of wildlife management and the WIHA program. Add to that the public wildlife areas, and all hunters have a reasonable space to hunt without asking permission or paying for a lease. The unfortunate part from my perspective is that many of the "deer" leases exclude all other hunting opportunities, limiting the space we have to seek access to. Many coveys never see a dog or gun and yet, they are contributing to the overall population. That being said, the larger the habitat footprint is, the more resilient that population is.

To throw some numbers at you, since the 80's in eastern Kansas, woodlands have expanded well over 25%. Also, since the 60's, fescue has taken over much of what was prairie previously. Add to that changes in cropping patterns and in grazing management, and you have many of the reasons SE Kansas is no longer the stronghold for bobwhite in our state. If you noticed the expansion of cedar invasion to the west over the last few decades, we're not immune to those same pressures in the western part of the state. The fear and ignorance of using fire for management is a big roadblock to having a stronger quail population. Our native grasses as well as bobwhite are all fire-obligate species. Drive around and look at much of the existing CRP. Very little of it has ever seen a fire and some of it dates back to 1985. The main factor that determines whether NWSG pastures/CRP persist, is time since fire. If WE want to benefit bobwhite, we could accomplish significant strides if WE helped landowners conduct prescribed burns on their land. Get food plots out of your head for a moment and consider that we have to nest them and brood them in order to recruit them. All of that is done before your food plot is planted most years and for sure before it is mature enough to contribute to reproduction. Fire and grazing are the predominant bobwhite management techniques that support quail populations and are the historic impacts that helped evolve the bobwhite species in it's development.

For those of you who love quail, here is some more math. Quail are not a good public land species. They are too susceptible to too many sources of mortality and you cannot stockpile them. Also, much of what many want to call instincts is actually learned behaviors that chicks pick up from their parents, that is the evolutionary reason that stocking them as pen-reared birds is a bust. As for public hunting areas, you will find that the environmental problems that occur on private land are also at work on public. Yes, we use more fire on many of our areas, but BOR and COE lands are prohibited from grazing and often they have significant hurdles to burning. Also, if you haven't noticed, most of our wildlife areas are located in riparian corridors, which are subject to much faster plant succession as compared to solely upland tracts.

What does the math, science, and history lessons teach us? If we want bobwhite to persist for our grandchildren to enjoy, we have to stop plant succession and habitat loss. Adding habitat is harder, but improving what is out there now and preserving the status of today's habitat should preserve today's numbers for as long as we can do that. All said, quit biting each other's arse and pick up the challenge and do something in the 9.5 months of off-season to ensure that your season remains viable. We all pay for the opportunity, just hunt smart and remain within the guidelines set by law. If you want to use an ethic tighter than the law, God Bless You. But don't force your ideology on your brother(sister). R3 is a buzzword these days. Recruitment, retention, and reactivation. The more of us there are paying for the opportunity, the stronger our populations will be long-term. Take a kid or woman hunting and get them hooked! Treat your farmers like they hold your future in their hands, because they do. Crap, do what grandma taught you to do and just play nice!!!

Almost left this out, in 2016, we raised fees for everyone an average of 32%. We hadn't had a fee increase since 2002 and inflation had increased 32% in those 14 years. Just to be able to do what we did in 2002 that increase was needed. We do some pretty amazing things with the limited budgets we have. If you want to know more, visit your local biologist or wildlife manager and see the list of accomplishments they have worked on for you. It's season. Let's get out there and enjoy what God has provided for us!
 
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