non-toxic beginner

tript2009 said:
Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread here, but in terms of pellet count, how does 1oz of steel compare to 1oz of lead? "Standard rule" is that lead is two sizes smaller than steel I.e. #4 steel = #6 lead and #3 steel = #5 lead, but what about in pellet count? Does an ounce of steel equate to more pellets in the shell due to steel weighing less than lead or am I just over thinking it? May also be something to consider if the OP is used to using a 1 1/4 oz or 1 3/8 oz lead load.
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From my Lyman handbook:
Steel 4s pellet count for 1oz is 192, lead 6s is 222/oz. A difference of 30 pellets. That kind of sets up the biggest downside of steel; what do we wish to run out of first, energy to penetrate or sufficient pattern density for adequate hits on target?
Bob
 
Bob M said:
From my Lyman handbook:
Steel 4s pellet count for 1oz is 192, lead 6s is 222/oz. A difference of 30 pellets. That kind of sets up the biggest downside of steel; what do we wish to run out of first, energy to penetrate or sufficient pattern density for adequate hits on target?
Bob
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I desire is not to just hit the target (game bird) but kill and recover the bird. So I would prefer energy to penetrate over pattern density for adequate hits on the target.

Personal experience, when switching from #5 lead to #4 steel, I was very dismayed. To many birds flying on minus a few feathers. Last season I switched to #3 steel and am now convinced when using steel shot, shot penetration is more important than shot density. I am now a happy confident hunter again.

I'm talking about regular steel shot here, not shot made with exotic heavy metals.
 
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Agreed. I would much rather have the energy to penetrate the game. I only use steel when I have to. How bout using lead next to cattle lots or where they graze? Wouldnt that be more of a danger of being consumed? I do hunt around cattle pastures and lots when dove and turkey hunting.
 
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FCSpringer said:
There never has been or ever will be evidence showing any negative effect on the environment and wild life. Its a farce. Just my 2 cents. If so show me real data.
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Blanket statements like that may make you feel good but they are meaningless.

The negative effects of lead on the environment and wildlife are well documented. Some of the evidence goes back to the 1800's.

Feel free to educate yourself by reading some of the following:

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/lead_poisoning/

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/lead_poisoning/publications.jsp

https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/17294/leadpoisoninginw26jord.pdf?sequence=1
 
And no one shoots anything over number 6's where we hunt. We you dont know if its gonna be quail or pheasant popping up next, so you cant keep a big shell in your gun. Cant shoot number 2's out of a 12 gauge at a quail. I guess you could but I wouldn't! Ive hunted with guys that fumble to switch shells in their guns. I use a pump 12 gauge. I shoot 7 1/2's at everything. Pheasants, quail, prairie chickens if I see em. If I'm hunting with steel I have a number 5 in for the first shell and 2--7 1/2's behind it. If quail get up, I just pump out the first shell and shoot the 7 1/2's at em. Steel is definitely more of a hassle in that sense. But I use it when the law requires it.
 
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#3 steel is all you will ever need to kill pheasants. I've shot geese and and coyotes at same range and with the same load and they are dead right there. My problem is I become a poor shot at much past 30 yards.You can shoot quail you don't hit as many of them.
 
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I read the blog that you posted. Did you really read any of the links that I posted? BTW: I understand full well what you are trying to say.

However, realize the following:

- There is zero evidence that any of the scientific studies posted by the United States Geological Survey or any of the work of Frank Bellrose was developed during a dream state.

- There is zero evidence that lead has been used since the beginning of guns...LOL.

- There is zero evidence that waterfowl numbers are higher (now) than any time in history.

- There is zero evidence that steel shot cripples more game than it kills.

In fact, in all instances above, there is solid evidence to the contrary.

I fully understand that you do not like steel shot or a ban on lead shot.
 
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BirdmanMI said:
We just found out that Lower Brule will go non-toxic next year and having never used it in my 20 O/U I am looking for input as far as recommendations for shot manufacturer, shot size, and steel, bismuth etc.?
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Birdman -- Here are a few of my 20ga 3" steel load pattern numbers to give you an idea of the kind of performance you might get with these loads. Of course, you will need to shoot a few patterns through you gun/chokes to see how they do.

When pheasant hunting with steel loads in my 20ga O/U I typically shoot the #3 or #2 steel loads through a SK/IM combo. That gives me good 30/40 yard pheasant pattern densities which is the distance I try to hold my 20ga shooting to.

Pattern numbers from a 20-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels and Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

20 GA 3" WINCHESTER DRYLOK STEEL LOAD
1 oz #3 steel (145 pellets) @ 1,330 fps
30 YARDS -- SK / 114 (78%)
30 YARDS -- IC / 123 (85%)
30 YARDS -- M / 133 (92%)
40 YARDS -- IM / 106 (73%)
40 YARDS -- LF / 110 (76%)

20 GA 3" REMINGTON NITRO-STEEL LOAD
1 oz #2 steel (118 pellets) @ 1,330 fps
30 YARDS -- SK / 101 (86%)
30 YARDS -- IC / 105 (89%)
30 YARDS -- M / 114 (97%)
40 YARDS -- IM / 99 (84%)
40 YARDS -- LF / 102 (86%)

Good luck.
 
tript2009 said:
Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread here, but in terms of pellet count, how does 1oz of steel compare to 1oz of lead? "Standard rule" is that lead is two sizes smaller than steel I.e. #4 steel = #6 lead and #3 steel = #5 lead, but what about in pellet count? Does an ounce of steel equate to more pellets in the shell due to steel weighing less than lead or am I just over thinking it? May also be something to consider if the OP is used to using a 1 1/4 oz or 1 3/8 oz lead load.
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trip -- Here are a few of my pattern numbers to show the patterning differences between 1 oz of lead #6 and 1 oz of #4 steel in a 20ga load.

Pattern numbers from a 20-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels and Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

20 GA 2 3/4" RELOAD (RSTS, R209, BLUE DOT, WAA20F1)
1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) @ 1,200 fps
30 YARDS -- IC / pattern 168 (72%)
30 YARDS -- M / pattern 200 (86%)
40 YARDS -- IM / pattern 163 (70%)
40 YARDS -- XF / pattern 171 (73%)

20 GA 3" REMINGTON NITRO-STEEL MAGNUM LOAD
1 oz #4 steel (191 pellets) @ 1,330 fps
30 YARDS -- IC / pattern 164 (86%)
30 YARDS -- M / pattern 179 (94%)
40 YARDS -- IM / pattern 147 (77%)
40 YARDS -- XF / pattern 152 (80%)

Hope this helps, good luck.
 
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PheasantWhisperer said:
Agreed. I would much rather have the energy to penetrate the game. I only use steel when I have to. How bout using lead next to cattle lots or where they graze? Wouldnt that be more of a danger of being consumed? I do hunt around cattle pastures and lots when dove and turkey hunting.
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I am not a steel fan in the slightest.....I am much more content with paying more money for a premium shell. I just feel like it makes complete sense when you compare the actual number of days that I get to hunt....
 
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