mnmthunting
Banned
Got the whole business again for 2014. General Elk, Deer, Game Birds, Migratory Birds and season long fishing.
Makes for a very busy time.
Makes for a very busy time.
Big Game Combination.
- Thread starter mnmthunting
- Start date
Wayne, I greatly admire your enthusiasm and your wife's patience. Make sure you leave a recent picture of yourself with her so she doesn't forget what you look like and tries to shoot you for a burglar when you come home late at night after a hunt.
This year we will drink beer or it's never going to happen. I'm bringing a fishing rod this year too.
This year we will drink beer or it's never going to happen. I'm bringing a fishing rod this year too.
goldenboy
Well-known member
MNMT, How have the deer been the last couple of years? I used to apply every year and have shot a noce muley in eastern MT on a farmers place I used to go and hunt at. But a few years ago it got really difficult to get a deer license because of a mite and then the bird numbers dropped in my area, so I quit applying for deer combination licenses and stopped going out to shoot deer. have you seen a rise in the deer numbers?
mnmthunting
Banned
Cal, My Wife sez? She enjoys the peace and quiet. Besides she meets her sister in the Twin Cities and go to "The Mall" and Ikea and other silly girl stuff.
I go West for short trips, 4-6 days, but multiple trips.
Cal, John, time to plan. :thumbsup:
Goldenboy, The NR Combination Licenses don't sell out anymore. Deer in Eastern MT have been hit hard from disease and the horrible Winter of 2010 and 11. Most of the state is antler only with no doe permits. That is a first ever for MT, tells the story.
The good news is, hunter numbers are WAY down, with does protected things should get better. That's in the Eastern part of the state. In the West there are other problems, what deer/elk there are, are being managed for the large carnivores. Times have sure changed.
Last I've heard there are some 8,000 NR Combos left over.
I go West for short trips, 4-6 days, but multiple trips.
Cal, John, time to plan. :thumbsup:
Goldenboy, The NR Combination Licenses don't sell out anymore. Deer in Eastern MT have been hit hard from disease and the horrible Winter of 2010 and 11. Most of the state is antler only with no doe permits. That is a first ever for MT, tells the story.
The good news is, hunter numbers are WAY down, with does protected things should get better. That's in the Eastern part of the state. In the West there are other problems, what deer/elk there are, are being managed for the large carnivores. Times have sure changed.
Last I've heard there are some 8,000 NR Combos left over.
BrowningCitori
Member
As of today, Non-resident Montana license left:
1671 Deer, 1974 elk and 2662 elk/deer combo
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/nowAvailable.html
85% of elk districts are at or over objectives, don't shoot the messenger!
1671 Deer, 1974 elk and 2662 elk/deer combo
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/licenses/nowAvailable.html
85% of elk districts are at or over objectives, don't shoot the messenger!
mnmthunting
Banned
FW&P is pushing hard for revenue.
Can't blame them, some 6,000,000 dollars in licence fees alone.
What would be the average a NR spends on a MT big Game MT hunt?
From my experience it's and additional 4-5 thousand.
All those elk areas to the East of the Wolf packs are "over objective" for elk populations. Lots of locked up private land.
Hard to draw permit only areas, especially if your a NR. Less then 10 percent of a very hard draw.
All the general areas in wolf country are "under objective" and getting worse. Those are the areas where the Big herds, large numbers of Elk and large public land masses once drew the hunters.
Now all those prime National Forest Areas there seems to be only enough ungulates to feed the large carnivores.
BrowningCitori
Member
[/QUOTE] All the general areas in wolf country are "under objective" and getting worse. Those are the areas where the Big herds, large numbers of Elk and large public land masses once drew the hunters.
Now all those prime National Forest Areas there seems to be only enough ungulates to feed the large carnivores. [/QUOTE]
I and lots of fellow hunters who live in wolf country would beg to differ. Many of these districts are OVER objective in western MT. Some even have GAME DAMAGE hunts in February. Of course these never make the news, media is more focused on wolves than those of us that live here.
So you ask if the districts are over objective and yet there are still leftover licenses, what gives? Good question, all it takes is ONE ranch to be purchased in each district by someone that is willing and/or wants to harbor elk during the hunting season. As an example one ranch in the district I hunt often harbors 1400 of the 2000 elk in the district! That number on that ranch goes up every year. We can and are managing wolves and other carnivores but no one has solved the "private elk refuge" issue. It is going to take some creativity and sportsman may have to give up somethings that in the past would have NEVER been considered. Stay tuned.
Now all those prime National Forest Areas there seems to be only enough ungulates to feed the large carnivores.
[/QUOTE]I and lots of fellow hunters who live in wolf country would beg to differ. Many of these districts are OVER objective in western MT. Some even have GAME DAMAGE hunts in February. Of course these never make the news, media is more focused on wolves than those of us that live here.
So you ask if the districts are over objective and yet there are still leftover licenses, what gives? Good question, all it takes is ONE ranch to be purchased in each district by someone that is willing and/or wants to harbor elk during the hunting season. As an example one ranch in the district I hunt often harbors 1400 of the 2000 elk in the district! That number on that ranch goes up every year. We can and are managing wolves and other carnivores but no one has solved the "private elk refuge" issue. It is going to take some creativity and sportsman may have to give up somethings that in the past would have NEVER been considered. Stay tuned.
mnmthunting
Banned
I know well that the elk herds are in the foothills and locked up on private ranches.
But I've been hunting elk in MT since 63, seen lots of changes in elk hunting and opportunities. Nothing has impacted elk in Western MT like the introduction of the Canadian wolves.
And I also know that for those of you with connections in the foothill ranches will have some fine elk hunting.
Consider the over all success of elk hunters, what 15-18 percent? That of course includes all the hard draw areas like 620's 410's etc where Success is 100% And guided hunters that are at 100%. So anyway that should tell you what the percent is for the average NR going into the NF.
FW&P is selling a product that has become overpriced while the quality has dropped off. And they are misleading NR's with their advertising.
But I've been hunting elk in MT since 63, seen lots of changes in elk hunting and opportunities. Nothing has impacted elk in Western MT like the introduction of the Canadian wolves.
And I also know that for those of you with connections in the foothill ranches will have some fine elk hunting.
Consider the over all success of elk hunters, what 15-18 percent? That of course includes all the hard draw areas like 620's 410's etc where Success is 100% And guided hunters that are at 100%. So anyway that should tell you what the percent is for the average NR going into the NF.
FW&P is selling a product that has become overpriced while the quality has dropped off. And they are misleading NR's with their advertising.
BrowningCitori
Member
I would agree nothing has changed backcountry/wilderness area elk hunting in the last 20 years more than wolves.
That is probably where the agreement ends. You were kidding about 620 and 410 right and guided hunters having 100% success? I looked it up
success isn't anywhere near 100%! The data is on-line if you are interested. Based on my own 621 bull tag a few years ago, which I didn't fill after 13 days of trying and many other hunters I ran into that were also unsuccessful. But I haven't been hunting elk since 1963 (I wasn't even born then), so many I don't know what I am doing. I did kill a bull that year just not in 621 but in a wolf infested intermountain valley on public land (ironic).
I would still argue in the inter-mountain valleys ,the ranches that harbor elk are a bigger threat, and to be clear I am talking about ranches that NO general hunter have access to (one or two owners friends may hunt the ranch). They are coming to the Breaks unfortunately and overtime you may see my point.
Are NR tags overprices, apparently, based on the lack of sales. The only constant is change...
mnmthunting
Banned
I've spent a lot of time archery hunting the Missouri Breaks both sides.
Not one day ever did I not see elk, close by, dozens even more.
HOW THE HECK can a person with an either sex elk tag and a rifle not get an elk in 620 or 410 or any of the breaks areas?
There still are a lot of outfitters and guides that work out of those locked up areas you talk about. Check out the MT guide association. A quick look at the web pages will confirm that many guarantee a chance at an elk. And many are 100% successful. Why wouldn't they be? 5-10 grand will get you a 100% guaranteed elk kill. :thumbsup:
I do have the advantage, I don't feel the need to promote MT hunting nor do I feel the need to keep people out. I do feel the need however to tell it like it is. And I've given quality advice to many. :cheers:
Not one day ever did I not see elk, close by, dozens even more.
HOW THE HECK can a person with an either sex elk tag and a rifle not get an elk in 620 or 410 or any of the breaks areas?
There still are a lot of outfitters and guides that work out of those locked up areas you talk about. Check out the MT guide association. A quick look at the web pages will confirm that many guarantee a chance at an elk. And many are 100% successful. Why wouldn't they be? 5-10 grand will get you a 100% guaranteed elk kill. :thumbsup:
I do have the advantage,
I don't feel the need to promote MT hunting nor do I feel the need to keep people out. I do feel the need however to tell it like it is. And I've given quality advice to many. :cheers:
PTM
Active member
Non-Resident Elk
Wayne, can you put in for the depredation list, my buddy pulled one two years ago and although it was cold the landowners were helping hunters find and remove Elk, even loaded his elk for him. As a dedicated birder from what I've seen I don't think I'd waste much time on public land general Elk hunting unless it was my primary mission especially as a non-resident with the high priced license and I could dedicate 14 days to it, plus with limited time I'd much rather use my Elk tag in Jan or Feb once I've gotten my fix for my bird hunting addiction. I think beyond the wolves and other external factors as the oil expands even more doors will be closed for the average guy.
Wayne, can you put in for the depredation list, my buddy pulled one two years ago and although it was cold the landowners were helping hunters find and remove Elk, even loaded his elk for him. As a dedicated birder from what I've seen I don't think I'd waste much time on public land general Elk hunting unless it was my primary mission especially as a non-resident with the high priced license and I could dedicate 14 days to it, plus with limited time I'd much rather use my Elk tag in Jan or Feb once I've gotten my fix for my bird hunting addiction. I think beyond the wolves and other external factors as the oil expands even more doors will be closed for the average guy.
mnmthunting
Banned
PTM I've actually have had pretty good luck over the years with elk hunting in MT. The General areas in the West where we hunted for years the elk have become scarce and have moved off into the ranch country and foothills.
The good hunting areas like for instance the Breaks where elk are plentiful are special permit only the general elk tag is invalid.
By MT law Non Resident hunters can draw as many as 10 % of the permit area tags. Never more then 10%. Often it might be 2 maybe 4 %.
That leaves only the general area for the NR's to go. No matter how it's sugar coated by FW&P it's likely to be no more then a camping trip. So why buy the $1,000 licence to go camping?
The good hunting areas like for instance the Breaks where elk are plentiful are special permit only the general elk tag is invalid.
By MT law Non Resident hunters can draw as many as 10 % of the permit area tags. Never more then 10%. Often it might be 2 maybe 4 %.
That leaves only the general area for the NR's to go. No matter how it's sugar coated by FW&P it's likely to be no more then a camping trip. So why buy the $1,000 licence to go camping?
BrowningCitori
Member
I've spent a lot of time archery hunting the Missouri Breaks both sides.
Not one day ever did I not see elk, close by, dozens even more.
HOW THE HECK can a person with an either sex elk tag and a rifle not get an elk in 620 or 410 or any of the breaks areas?
BASED on this logic, how the heck can someone with a high tech compound bow (not sure those should be legal but that is another discussion) hunting during the rut not kill a 350 plus bull every year in the Breaks?
It takes about 30 minutes on most of the TV shows...:cheers:
FCSpringer
Moderator
Enjoy that hunt Wayne, sounds fun. Next year or 2 I hope to get in touch with an acquaintance from UPH to do a CO Elk. I just want to bag 1 decent bull in my lifetime. Not getting any younger LOL.
small munsterlander owner
Banned
I've spent a lot of time archery hunting the Missouri Breaks both sides.
Not one day ever did I not see elk, close by, dozens even more.
HOW THE HECK can a person with an either sex elk tag and a rifle not get an elk in 620 or 410 or any of the breaks areas?
BASED on this logic, how the heck can someone with a high tech compound bow (not sure those should be legal but that is another discussion) hunting during the rut not kill a 350 plus bull every year in the Breaks?
It takes about 30 minutes on most of the TV shows...:cheers:
and u forgot to mention it also takes a guide & about 5,000$-7,000$ for that hunt... they will put u on a horse hold ur hand till u spot elk then tell u when to shoot what bull then dresd it for u and pack it for u all u have to do is pay $ & shoot... sounds like fun... id much rather work like wayne does much more of a hunt then a shoot...
mnmthunting
Banned
I've spent a lot of time archery hunting the Missouri Breaks both sides.
Not one day ever did I not see elk, close by, dozens even more.
HOW THE HECK can a person with an either sex elk tag and a rifle not get an elk in 620 or 410 or any of the breaks areas?
BASED on this logic, how the heck can someone with a high tech compound bow (not sure those should be legal but that is another discussion) hunting during the rut not kill a 350 plus bull every year in the Breaks?
It takes about 30 minutes on most of the TV shows...:cheers:
Good post BC. My "high tech" bow will do a job up to what? 40 yards, maybe 50 at best. Your high powered 300 mag or equivalent will kill you an elk at what? 5-6 hundred yards. You don't really have to be a hunter in the breaks to kill a 350 bull with a high powered rifle.
Come on, What I could do with a chance like that. :cheers:
Anyway, anything else?
Oh yeah, 621 either sex elk tag in the North Missouri breaks, 13 days hunting with a rifle tag, could NOT fill your license.
You DID NOT leave the road to hunt. Enough said.
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