Dog ranging Out to far

Some good points above. Steps that may need to be taken: "Whoa" training, an essential for an upland dog's safety and his master's happiness afield. I leash walk my dog every morning and teach and practice whoa during the walks. I train to whoa on both "whoa" and a short whistle note so as to avoid speaking while afield if possible. I think putting the dog on some kind of lead initially is essential to whoa training, maybe with a spike collar. You might put the e-collar on the dog while whoa training and tone or vibrate him simultaneous with whoaing. Once the dog is 90% whoa trained, use the e-collar to enforce it while afield; first a tone and then immediately followed by a shock if the tone is ignored. Following these guidelines I have had excellent control over my brittanys.
 
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Does anyone know of an e-collar system that you can set up to correct the dog if it ranges out too far? I have a Dratharr that wants to get too far out and flush birds, he'll case pheasant that run I'd like to find a collar that automatically corrects him if he gets out more than 40 yards

??? BEFORE YOU RUIN THAT DOG—GET TOGETHER WITH SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING—
A e-collar is not a automatic training device —it’s only something that should be used by someone that knows what they are doing—and how to use one
To be blunt—that’s not you :rolleyes::mad:
 
Here's the bottom line on this subject. An ecollar is a great tool but used incorrectly will do more harm then good. Correcting your dog with one when he's hot on birds could lead to blinking. It would be similar to a dog put thru rattlesnake avoidence training. Done enough the dog may begin to avoid birds when he makes scent. This is called "blinking". When this happens you have a real problem on your hands.
 
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Here's the bottom line on this subject. An ecollar is a great tool but used incorrectly will do more harm then good. Correcting your dog with one when he's hot on birds could lead to blinking. It would be similar to a dog put thru rattlesnake avoidence training. Done enough the dog may begin to avoid birds when he makes scent. This is called "blinking". When this happens you have a real problem on your hands.

Good to have the attitude that the most dangerous thing that you are carrying in the field is your collar, more so than your gun. I've hunted with guys that in my opinion, misuse, and their dogs were pyschological train wrecks. Dogs don't routinely carry tape measures, and have to be taught what 25 yards means. I'm sure there are better methods, but not being a dog trainer, I resort to tone, vibrate, and stop and kneel, and praise to teach her distance and to look back. Imo dogs are like teenagers, they respond poorly to constant yelling and punishment, and end up secretly hating you. I'm still working on the whoa command, and I use "stay" instead when I want her to stop, but I try to hunt in silence with her, so I only use it when she's on point and when I take the trash cans down to the road. I don't know anything about dog training, so I had to resort to applying the same principles that you use when I raised my kids and watch my grandkids. Gotta keep it really simple; stay out of the road, stay close, have fun, stop what you are doing, come. Like raising kids and grandkids, it's a lot of work and it's never complete. Always a work in progress.
 
The real bottom line is a pointing dog shouldn’t be forced to work close
they have a natural range and you need to adapt to it and understand how to use it to your advantage
 
The real bottom line is a pointing dog shouldn’t be forced to work close
they have a natural range and you need to adapt to it and understand how to use it to your advantage

Yes, I know that's the right approach and I'm working on it. When I hunt downwind I let her range out some and she natually hunts back to me. When I hunt into the wind she wants to stay tighter, for some reason. I'm still learning. It's the first pointer I've had, so very different. When I hunt alone with her, which is most of the time, I let her go a little because we are so quiet. In a group when there's a lot more noise, I like her a little closer. Those SD birds are hard to pin down. That I know for sure. She's a French spaniel, and not a far ranging dog. They hunt pretty tight, actually. Very timid breed. Gotta be real careful about how you correct them, or they'll end up hunting behind you. She has presented me with quite s few really close shots, which works for me, cuz my shotgun skills beyond 35 yards are not great. Sure is fun out there. Leaving again tomorrow. Wife won't move there. Darn!
 
Not sure why you would want a pointing dog to only range 40 yards? I have a little cocker and I want her going out about 40 yards in a downwind and she is a flusher! If the dog is pointing why would you need to keep it within that 40 yards?
To be fair I have seen many pointing dogs at hunt clubs working in what I consider a good range for a spaniel or flushing dog and never could figure out why that is?
 
Too far

Not sure why you would want a pointing dog to only range 40 yards? I have a little cocker and I want her going out about 40 yards in a downwind and she is a flusher! If the dog is pointing why would you need to keep it within that 40 yards?
To be fair I have seen many pointing dogs at hunt clubs working in what I consider a good range for a spaniel or flushing dog and never could figure out why that is?

Her range really varies a lot with the cover that I hunt and the wind direction. Cattails she naturally wants to hunt close because she wants to know where I am and is always checking back. Thick grass cover she is out farther. Thin cover, which I don’t hunt all that often, I’ll let her go and watch her just for fun. Into the wind she naturally hunts pretty close, downwind she ranges and hunts back to me. I have been really careful to let her hunt and not over-control her. I think that each dog is different within the same breed, and will find their pace and distance with experience. I would say that on average she is within 25 to 45yards 85-90 of the time, just because that’s where she seems to be comfortable. She does this without a word being said, just the beep of the collar. I’m not one to just let her go and hope that she occasionally pins down that rooster 60 yards in front of me, while flushing five birds for everyone she pins down. Show me a dog that consistently pins down wild South Dakota roosters for a walk in shot, without wild flushes, and I will gladly buy the owner a four pack of Todd the Axeman IPA from the Surly Brewing Company, and a chunk of Wisconsin aged cheddar. Haha
 
Not sure why you would want a pointing dog to only range 40 yards? I have a little cocker and I want her going out about 40 yards in a downwind and she is a flusher! If the dog is pointing why would you need to keep it within that 40 yards?
To be fair I have seen many pointing dogs at hunt clubs working in what I consider a good range for a spaniel or flushing dog and never could figure out why that is?

Best pheasant dog I ever owned was a little lewellin setter that quartered like springer. Could out hunt any dog alive and never ranged more than 40-50 yds. That's why. I did all of her basic training and after her first season I sent her to Scott Miller. He used to have a 6 week refresher course that he would hold at the end of hunting season. When he had her there he told me she was the best dog in kennel. And he had numerous national field champions.
 
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I've stayed out of this as I'm a retriever guy and know little about pointers. Maybe I should have started a separate thread as this isn't geared towards any of the above comments.
I've always thought the idea of a pointer is a dog that covers lots of property and then points the bird till the hunter catches up. Now I understand why someone might want a HUGE running dog and others may prefer a closer working dog. But ideally if a close working dog cuts sent and is working a bird why would you not just let him go and catch up? Why make him work like a flusher/retriever? Seems like using a crescent wrench as a hammer, it only kind of works. Let him use his natural ability to your advantage.
PS I have owned a pointer or two and enjoyed them. I would probably still have a GSP if I didn't like playing retriever games in the off season, a guy can only have so many dogs (i think).
 
I've stayed out of this as I'm a retriever guy and know little about pointers. Maybe I should have started a separate thread as this isn't geared towards any of the above comments.
I've always thought the idea of a pointer is a dog that covers lots of property and then points the bird till the hunter catches up. Now I understand why someone might want a HUGE running dog and others may prefer a closer working dog. But ideally if a close working dog cuts sent and is working a bird why would you not just let him go and catch up? Why make him work like a flusher/retriever? Seems like using a crescent wrench as a hammer, it only kind of works. Let him use his natural ability to your advantage.
PS I have owned a pointer or two and enjoyed them. I would probably still have a GSP if I didn't like playing retriever games in the off season, a guy can only have so many dogs (i think).

I think that is the U.S. way. If you go England they hunt much different. I think in general that Retriever people put more control in their dogs for obvious reasons. Which makes them more versatile. The pointing breed guys tend to just turned them loose. You have to decide if you want a gentleman's gun dog or dog that hunts for itself. The old timers used to always say "don't make a pet out of em" as well. I think it is more of misconception and an excuse for some who lack control.
 
I have learned quite a bit from this thread! It is now clear to me that my belief that a pointer should range out is not correct and many times you want to keep them within the same range as we want our spaniels to work. I was always of the impression that most pointers were bred to range out very long distances so this comes as a complete surprise to me. Very interesting indeed.
 
I have learned quite a bit from this thread! It is now clear to me that my belief that a pointer should range out is not correct and many times you want to keep them within the same range as we want our spaniels to work. I was always of the impression that most pointers were bred to range out very long distances so this comes as a complete surprise to me. Very interesting indeed.

Man I hope you are not being serious.
 
I have learned quite a bit from this thread! It is now clear to me that my belief that a pointer should range out is not correct and many times you want to keep them within the same range as we want our spaniels to work. I was always of the impression that most pointers were bred to range out very long distances so this comes as a complete surprise to me. Very interesting indeed.

They were indeed bred to cover long distances, in a field trial. No doubt what they were bred for. But as far as hunting pheasants, why would you want to hunt that way?
 
Why would you want a pointing dog in gun range? Get a flushing dog if you want to keep a dog in gun range.
 
I have learned quite a bit from this thread! It is now clear to me that my belief that a pointer should range out is not correct and many times you want to keep them within the same range as we want our spaniels to work. I was always of the impression that most pointers were bred to range out very long distances so this comes as a complete surprise to me. Very interesting indeed.

That's not the way I hunt. My pointing dogs are turned loose and they go. Their job is to find birds, where ever that is and point them until I get there. I've never attempted to keep my dogs 'in range' so to speak. But hey, that's just me.
 
Pointers don’t work in gun range and mine hold plenty of roosters at long range until I get there

I like flushers in cattails and pointers in crp and prairie

Horses for courses
 
I've always let my Brittanys run big in CRP fields. Sure they bump a bird now and then but for the most part they would point and hold until I got there. However, now I have a big running 2 year old female Brittany. Biggest running Britt I've ever had. She is only into her second hunting season and I'm not sure she will ever make a decent pheasant dog. If the bird doesn't hold tight and runs out from under her she will track and run after the scent and flush it out of range. I'm hoping that in time she will figure it out but right now I'm struggling with her. No doubt that when I get her steadied up she is going to make one heck of a field trial dog.

I agree with some other posts on here that if you have a pointing dog let 'em run. If you want to keep the dog within 40 yards get a flusher. But there are some pointing breeds that do work within 40 yards. I recently hunted with mgorvi from this site and he has a French Spaniel that is a closer working pointing breed. Very nice and beautiful dog.
 
Dogs ran pretty big yesterday and the birds really ran on my 2 year old. The cattails in this area were flooded (mostly dry - most years, but wet the this year and last) and definitely not human ready. Even the pheasants appeared to avoid them ... We ended up walking a big horseshoe around the cattail slough and as we were pressing back to the road, the birds finally held and then broke out in a mad dash of flight. We had walked and pressed the field to several "bare" flush points and the birds never got up. I am convinced that they ran the horseshoe pattern in front of us. It was the biggest flock 12+ birds that my dog has been pointing and been part of. He (we) learned a lot yesterday.

Interestingly most of the birds that flushed and flew towards the cattail slough ... over flew the slough and landed in the grass where we had started.

My 8 year old Britt pinned a nice rooster along a grass / chisel plowed corn field about 80 yards in front of me. Held him there until I was about 10 yards away and the bird flushed back towards me and the grass.

Scenting conditions were about perfect with a light breeze and frosty grass from the morning fog. They were pointing hard ... birds running ... quite a few flushed out on the edge of shotgun range.
 
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